Where Is th Glory of God in Providing Cheerful Givers?

[poorinspirit]

Where is the glory of God in providing cheerful givers if tithings are expected? How can pledges reflect the church's faith in God's Providence? We can hear about applying faith when things are tough in our individual lives from the pulpit, but why is it absent when believers come together as a congregation in regards to what the Lord wants that church to do, let along in providing for it?

Remember Jesus' instructions about almsgivings?

Matthew 6: 1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Now granted, some people tithe/ give so that they can have their tax deductions thus the church has a record of it. It is not a sin, but by His Word, that type of giving has already received its reward.

In my former church, the Lord gave the word, "Ichabod", unto me regarding the budget meeting I was attending. Immediately afterward, He led me to the definition of that word... the glory of the Lord has left. I saw it as men looking to men to provide through their pledges. They claim it was neccessary so they can plan ahead. They also came to say that grace will be given to those that give pledges that cannot for some reason keep it in difficult financial times ahead. From what I have seen in collecting, the church does not act on anything till they have received anyway so why the pledges? It seems like it takes away the glory of the Lord in providing in the sights of the congregation by having pledges and tithings.

My dad later informed me in life that the church also had taken the legacy account ( church members whom have died and placed in their will their gifts to the church had been designated towards the building fund) has been moved to an interest bearing account till enough money be raised. Since then, givings dropped off....including the "tithings". They had to draw from that account to pay the bills.

Currently, and as if tithings and pledges were not enough, there is an ongoing hype for the Covenant for Generations which is on top of the tithings and givings... the pledges altogether. It just seems so obvious to me now that the view of looking to man to provide is voiding the faith in God providing thus adding to the disappearing faith in the christian churches due to the works and boasts of man.

Now I understand that some believe in tithings and the neccessity for pledges, but I don't believe in it in light of the fact that His glory in providing for the churches is being voided right along with that faith.

I cannot find it, but Paul held a group of believers in their pledge, because he did not want them to sin. He did not asked for that pledge, but they gave it in regards to support. When Paul was under a vow, he warned the Gentiles not to follow after him. If churches give grace, and yet they can only act on what is received, what is the point of the pledge? Is it not vanity? And are we sensitive to the concept of pledges or promises or commitments so as to not allow people to think it is a thing one can break under grace when alot of warnings were given not to break it, let alone make it?

It's like making a promise not to sin with your mouth by not cussing. When you cuss, you not only sinned, but you add sin to it by breaking that promise. That's doubling the sin. Any promises or pledges in doing the Lord's work in us or through the churches should be left in God's hands to do & to finish.... otherwise where is that faith in Him to do it to the world? If anyone has made such a promise or commitment that is the Lord's to do as covered in His Covenant to us like helping us to live as His, then acknowledge that you cannot finish it, ask for forgiveness to be set free from that you can never finish, and trust Him to do it so you can rest in Him and get to know Him and the power of His resurrection as He helps you to live the christian life by faith alone.

Mayhap this has led to the growing mentality in America for making open ended promises that can never really be finished when grace is given to break a pledge or a promise. I see it in the Pledge of Allegiance. I see it in Promise Keepers. I see it in the commitment to Christ in following Him. I do not see the sensitivity of Paul in regards to fearing the Lord in not seeing a brother sin by bringing them into a bondage they can never say they have finished. And all this pledges in givings and looking to men in providing, is that not like boasting of tomorrow? Can a church take away the glory of God's providence by glorying in themselves to have their works shown to the world due to their pledges?

2 Corinthians 11: 7Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? 8I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service. 9And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself. 10As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia. 11Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth. 12But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 16I say again, let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little. 17That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting. 18Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. 19For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

James 4: 3Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. 4Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 5Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. 11Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? 13Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

16But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. 17Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Let's face it. There is security in the pledges of tithings and givings that it takes away the necessity of looking to the Lord to provide. To some, looking to the Lord to provide by faith is not an option they are willing to have the church run by. How does that reflect the faith that everyone is supposed to apply towards their individual lives when they go home from church?

[P_Joseph]

AMEN AMEN, i SEE YOUR PIONT!

[poorinspirit]

AMEN AMEN, i SEE YOUR PIONT!

1 Corinthians 3: 5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

I thank you God for the increase for I am nothing! AMEN!

Thanks for your reply, preacherJoseph! It lets me know the Lord is still ministering. Amen.

Edited October 21, 2007 by poorinspirit

[hr.jr.]

Where is the glory of God in providing cheerful givers if tithings are expected? How can pledges reflect the church's faith in God's Providence? We can hear about applying faith when things are tough in our individual lives from the pulpit, but why is it absent when believers come together as a congregation in regards to what the Lord wants that church to do, let along in providing for it?

Remember Jesus' instructions about almsgivings?

Matthew 6: 1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Now granted, some people tithe/ give so that they can have their tax deductions thus the church has a record of it. It is not a sin, but by His Word, that type of giving has already received its reward.

In my former church, the Lord gave the word, "Ichabod", unto me regarding the budget meeting I was attending. Immediately afterward, He led me to the definition of that word... the glory of the Lord has left. I saw it as men looking to men to provide through their pledges. They claim it was neccessary so they can plan ahead. They also came to say that grace will be given to those that give pledges that cannot for some reason keep it in difficult financial times ahead. From what I have seen in collecting, the church does not act on anything till they have received anyway so why the pledges? It seems like it takes away the glory of the Lord in providing in the sights of the congregation by having pledges and tithings.

My dad later informed me in life that the church also had taken the legacy account ( church members whom have died and placed in their will their gifts to the church had been designated towards the building fund) has been moved to an interest bearing account till enough money be raised. Since then, givings dropped off....including the "tithings". They had to draw from that account to pay the bills.

Currently, and as if tithings and pledges were not enough, there is an ongoing hype for the Covenant for Generations which is on top of the tithings and givings... the pledges altogether. It just seems so obvious to me now that the view of looking to man to provide is voiding the faith in God providing thus adding to the disappearing faith in the christian churches due to the works and boasts of man.

Now I understand that some believe in tithings and the neccessity for pledges, but I don't believe in it in light of the fact that His glory in providing for the churches is being voided right along with that faith.

I cannot find it, but Paul held a group of believers in their pledge, because he did not want them to sin. He did not asked for that pledge, but they gave it in regards to support. When Paul was under a vow, he warned the Gentiles not to follow after him. If churches give grace, and yet they can only act on what is received, what is the point of the pledge? Is it not vanity? And are we sensitive to the concept of pledges or promises or commitments so as to not allow people to think it is a thing one can break under grace when alot of warnings were given not to break it, let alone make it?

It's like making a promise not to sin with your mouth by not cussing. When you cuss, you not only sinned, but you add sin to it by breaking that promise. That's doubling the sin. Any promises or pledges in doing the Lord's work in us or through the churches should be left in God's hands to do & to finish.... otherwise where is that faith in Him to do it to the world? If anyone has made such a promise or commitment that is the Lord's to do as covered in His Covenant to us like helping us to live as His, then acknowledge that you cannot finish it, ask for forgiveness to be set free from that you can never finish, and trust Him to do it so you can rest in Him and get to know Him and the power of His resurrection as He helps you to live the christian life by faith alone.

Mayhap this has led to the growing mentality in America for making open ended promises that can never really be finished when grace is given to break a pledge or a promise. I see it in the Pledge of Allegiance. I see it in Promise Keepers. I see it in the commitment to Christ in following Him. I do not see the sensitivity of Paul in regards to fearing the Lord in not seeing a brother sin by bringing them into a bondage they can never say they have finished. And all this pledges in givings and looking to men in providing, is that not like boasting of tomorrow? Can a church take away the glory of God's providence by glorying in themselves to have their works shown to the world due to their pledges?

2 Corinthians 11: 7Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? 8I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service. 9And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself. 10As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia. 11Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth. 12But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 16I say again, let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little. 17That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting. 18Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. 19For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

James 4: 3Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. 4Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 5Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. 11Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? 13Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

16But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. 17Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Let's face it. There is security in the pledges of tithings and givings that it takes away the necessity of looking to the Lord to provide. To some, looking to the Lord to provide by faith is not an option they are willing to have the church run by. How does that reflect the faith that everyone is supposed to apply towards their individual lives when they go home from church?

One of the problems with today's churches is that they are run by business men. Business men think in dollars and cents. Spiritually led men think "God said do this. I care less that it is impossible. I will follow God." God does the impossible. Most deacon boards look to their own means, not to God's provision.

[poorinspirit]

Hi hr.jr.,

One of the problems with today's churches is that they are run by business men. Business men think in dollars and cents. Spiritually led men think "God said do this. I care less that it is impossible. I will follow God." God does the impossible. Most deacon boards look to their own means, not to God's provision.

I agree. That can be one of the problems.

[ladygirl21]

Maybe because of bills! Dull! I mean the reason most people don't give tithes is because they don't trust God. He keep sending bills, IRS, high gass prices, and plus the Church is so full of filth now one wouldn't want to go any more, but stay at home where peace resides. Debt is also a big issue. If the Church or rather God want people to tithe why don't he try fixing the finances for once. Give us a little more money to get out of debt!

[damo1]

damo1

why has an old post shown up has any one bothered to look at the date when the last poster posted in this persons thread ?

[AnotherTraveler]

A subject of interest is what matters, the date lasted posted on doesn't matter. This is not like fresh bread, it doesn't get moldy.