The Jewishness of Jesus and the Loss of the Sacred Writings

[Smalcald]

Who said Christ was crucified on Friday and rose Sunday? You won't find that in the Gospels. That was a Catholic invention. And Christ Himself said He would be in the center of the Earth for 3 days and 3 nights. If He died on Friday and rose on Sunday, that would only be 2 nights and maybe 2 days.

Well, maybe it is time we reconsider this age-old tradition. Maybe it is time we start "resting" on the seventh day and not the first.

Hi Systemstrike. The Gospels establish very clearly that Christ rose on the first day of the week, Sunday the day after the Sabbath.

Matthew:

1After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

2There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

5The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples: 'He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.' Now I have told you."

Dawn after the Sabbath is Sunday and always has been.

Most Christians worship on Sunday as a celebration of this resurrection. Personally I think we should worship every day as the first Churches did. But regardless Christ rose on Sunday, and indeed Saturday is the true Sabbath. There are several theological reasons for not keeping a strict Saturday Sabbath which we can go into if you like. But for me, I have no problem with Christians who feel compelled out of love for Christ to keep a Saturday Sabbath.

[Yahsway]

Actually there were 2 sabbaths the week Jesus was crucified. He was not crucified on Friday as has been taught, but that said, It was the 1st day of the week (our Greek Sunday) that the women went to the tomb and found it empty.

Jesus could have risen right after the Hebrew Sabbath, on Saturday night at sundown by way of the Greek calander. After sundown on Saturday night the Sabbath is over and its considered to be the 1st day of the week.

My personal opinon as to why the Catholic church instituted "Good Friday" as being the day Jesus was crucified was to seperate themselves from the anything "Jewish" such as the Feasts of the Lord, which by the way are NOT Jewish Feasts, but the scriptures call them "The Feasts of the Lord". These are the foreshadows of Jesus. Passover, unleavened Bread, Shavuot(Pentecost) ect...

There are the weekly sabbaths, and there are the High Holy Day Sabbaths as well.

For a better understanding, go to Leviticus 23.

And the Lord spoke to Moses saying, "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'The feasts of the Lord, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these ARE MY FEASTS.

Shavuot(Feasts of weeks) The Greek word "Pentecost" was practiced for many years by the Jews even before Jesus's day and it always fell on the Greek calander on Sunday. This is NOT a New Test. concept. This is why you read in Acts 2 about

"And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from EVERY nation under heaven."

These international Jews had made the pilgrimage to Jerusalem to celebrate the festival of weeks (Pentecost)

All of these feasts of the Lord point directly to Jesus. There are 3 feasts which still have not been fulfilled in there entirety until Jesus returns. The feasts of Trumpets, Day of Atonment, and the Feasts of Tabernacles.

I remember reading somewhere, where polycarp, who some scholars believe to be an elder at the church of Pergemos or Ephesus, i will have to research this again, but anyway, He and his assembly continued to keep the Saturday sabbath and the feasts of the Lord and there was controversy between him and the catholic church over it.

The church seperated itself from anything that looked "Jewish" to them and made up their own traditions, one being that Christ was crcuified on Friday (Hence "Good Friday") and since he arose on the 1st day of the week, the church instituted that day as a "Universal Day" set aside for corporate worship. But it was more political than religous but thats another story.

Then they brought in "Easter" sunday which had always been celebrated by the pagans long before Jesus. King Herod was an Edomite, not Jewish. In the KJV it states in Acts 12:4

And when he(Herod) had apprehended him (peter) he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him, intending after EASTER to bring him forth to the people.

Now, many scholars today say that the word "Easter" in that text was a mistranslation and that it should have read "passover" If this is the case, then this translation was out there for many years being read in the KJV of scriptures.

But I wonder, and I only assume this, I have no proof, but I wonder since Herod was an Edomite, that this verse is referring to Herod bringing Peter out to the people after He (Herod) celebrates Easter. In any event, If we read it in some of todays translations it says passover.

What i am getting at here is where does the "days of unleavened bread" as spoken of in verse 3 of Acts 12 have anything to do with "Easter" spoken of in verse 4 of acts 12 in the KJV of scriptures? They dont. Did the Church put this word in there as they had changed the meaning of Passover to Easter? makes me wonder. Just some food for thought.

[Smalcald]

Matthew

11While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. 12When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, 13telling them, "You are to say, 'His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.' 14If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble." 15So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.

[systemstrike_7]

Matthew

11While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. 12When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, 13telling them, "You are to say, 'His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.' 14If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble." 15So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.

I'm not how this verse is related, but as to the other verse: Yes, Jesus rose the 1st day of the week, but with this being said, he couldn't have died on Friday. That wouldn't be 3 days and 3 nights. And as Yahsway said, the tomb was empty on the 1st day. He very well could have risen on the sabbath. Which, if Christ died on thursday, then that would be 3 days and 3 nights exactly.

[Smalcald]

Well it all depends on how you want to count it.

Friday, Saturday and Sunday sound like three to me. Sure given He was crucified on Friday PM and rose on Sunday Am, not three 24 hour periods, but three days. If it is Friday and I am going to see you on Sunday I will say see you in three days.

To me it is simply not that big of a deal, I don't know why argue about these little details? We know that the tomb was first found empty on the first day, the day after the Sabbath. So if people wish to celebrate the day that the resurrection was first proclaimed, the first time the Gospel rang forth, they would choose to celebrate on whatever day is the first one after the Sabbath. That kind of makes sense as part of Christian worship is simply proclaiming the Good News, the very same thing that Mary first proclaimed 1967 years ago.

However, that first day is not the Sabbath and never has been. The Catholic Church never claimed to have changed that. What many Christians today believe is that the observance of the Sabbath is through Christ Himself, that He is our Sabbath rest. This would also follow Paul's instructions to not worry about New Moons and Sabbath's as they were the shadow of things to come, and that thing to come was Christ.

However I think a case can be made that the commandment still stands, so for this reason I certainly don't fault Christians who wish to follow the commandment in that way. Several Christian groups do observe a Saturday Sabbath. But we must be clear worshipping on Sunday is not observing a Sabbath or a type of "Sunday" Sabbath, there is no such thing.

[systemstrike_7]

Well it all depends on how you want to count it.

Friday, Saturday and Sunday sound like three to me. Sure given He was crucified on Friday PM and rose on Sunday Am, not three 24 hour periods, but three days. If it is Friday and I am going to see you on Sunday I will say see you in three days.

To me it is simply not that big of a deal, I don't know why argue about these little details? We know that the tomb was first found empty on the first day, the day after the Sabbath. So if people wish to celebrate the day that the resurrection was first proclaimed, the first time the Gospel rang forth, they would choose to celebrate on whatever day is the first one after the Sabbath. That kind of makes sense as part of Christian worship is simply proclaiming the Good News, the very same thing that Mary first proclaimed 1967 years ago.

However, that first day is not the Sabbath and never has been. The Catholic Church never claimed to have changed that. What many Christians today believe is that the observance of the Sabbath is through Christ Himself, that He is our Sabbath rest. This would also follow Paul's instructions to not worry about New Moons and Sabbath's as they were the shadow of things to come, and that thing to come was Christ.

However I think a case can be made that the commandment still stands, so for this reason I certainly don't fault Christians who wish to follow the commandment in that way. Several Christian groups do observe a Saturday Sabbath. But we must be clear worshipping on Sunday is not observing a Sabbath or a type of "Sunday" Sabbath, there is no such thing.

My point was that Jesus said He would be in the center of the Earth for 3 days and 3 nights (the sign of Jonah). But regardless, I think this thread has run its course.

[Smalcald]

No, Jesus specifically said He would rise on the third day. If He is going to do that, He could not be in the ground for three nights.

But the symmetry to Jonah is nice, and of course the concept of "three" we see over and over again, from the third day to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, etc. But I think getting overly literalistic is always a mistake.

[Smalcald]

Why has the thread run its course?

[mr1975]

No where in new testment does Christ declair what day we are to up hold the Sabbath, in fact he him self points out that he is Lord of the Sabbath. Wheather you choose to obey the Sabbath on Saturday or on Sunday isn't what matters, what matters is that you uphold the Sabbath, this means take a day out and gathering in Fellowship and Worshiping God.

I'm Sorry Systemstrike you are making the Same mistake the Pharasees made, your looking at the letter of the Law and not the int of the Law, the reason we honor the Sabbath is to rest in the Lord, to Worship him and togather with other followers. If you choose to do this on Saturday vs Sunday that is your choice, I don't think its wrong either way.

I want to leave with one thaught and I will get more in to it tomorrow because I have to run to work. If the Torah is correct and every one else is wrong then then Heaven is gone be a very empty place. I my self can't read the Torah, and I don't have any real reason to learn how. I'm not the only one in this boat. Now do you honestly think that God would be that short sitted not to realize that there would be Gentiles that could not read the Torah. I think not, I think there are different ways to honor God, different Traditions that people uphold, however at the core of all those belief should all be the same, the Teachings of Christ.

In short the message that is in Torah is also found with in Christan Bible, both groups of people follow or are supposed to follow his teachings. Everything else is Tradition and a way of Honor God, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as it doesn't conterdict what Christ Taught use, there is nothing wrong with it as long as you understand that the only way to get in to Heaven is through Jesus Christ, for his death and Ressurectiong, that are sins are forgiven not by are actions but by the blood of Christ. That is what I believe.

System your trying to prove that the Torah is right and Christanity is wrong, that we should convert over to the Torah, and what your not getting is both are right because at the heart both have the same message.