poorinspirit Posted October 31, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 318 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/21/1963 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Those that resort to binding men to Christ are not fully preaching the Gospel. Romans 15: 15Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 16That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 17I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 18For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 19Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. No one can say that by leading a man to make a commitment to Christ or to follow Him is NOT making the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, thus not fully preaching the Gospel. 2 Corinthians 11: 19For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face. Galatians 3: 1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 5: 1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. Amazing how when they address the issue of being circumcised, if they do that, they must do the whole law. What about the law of man made bondages that declares I will? Philippians 3: And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: We follow Jesus by faith, not by the deeds of the Law as if there is power in the keeping of that commitment to Him or to follow Him that makes us lives as His. Galatians 3: And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Galatians 2: Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Romans 9: 31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 10:1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. Philippians 1: 6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: ....9And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. This is why the just shall live by faith in Jesus and all of His promises to us. That is why not very many mighty men nor nobles are called. It is foolishness to men to not look to man-made bondages to force men to follow God for a relationship with God by faith in following Jesus is not a religion they can get behind with pride in themselves. 1 Corinthians 1: 25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. Thus the call is given out to the religious christians that has been led astray in making that commitment to Christ or to follow Him instead of trusting the Lord as a child would that He will be Our Good Shepherd in helping us live as His. Matthew 11: 28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. 1 John 3: 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Jude 1: 24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Hebrews 4: 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. How important is this? Mark 10: 13And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. 14But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 15Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. What can a child do but trust the Lord? Psalm 118: 8It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (or in yourself) Philippians 3: 1Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Psalm 19: 13Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. 14Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted October 31, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I don't understand what you are saying here. in other threads, you have spoken of keeping our eyes on Jesus,, but now you are saying we are not supposed to commit our lives to Him? I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted October 31, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2007 Shalom Poor, What exactly are you saying? You see, your doctrine is unclear, your theology is mixed up and your posts are hard to understand. Please try to explain what point you are trying to make. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorinspirit Posted October 31, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 318 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/21/1963 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 I don't understand what you are saying here. in other threads, you have spoken of keeping our eyes on Jesus,, but now you are saying we are not supposed to commit our lives to Him? I don't get it. Making a commitment to Christ is taking your eyes off of Jesus in helping you live the christian life to looking to yourself by keeping that commitment to Christ or to follow Him as the means in living that christian life. Instead of Jesus being Lord over you... you allowed the commitment to Christ or the commitment to follow Him to rule over you. The just shall live by faith = relationship based on trust as in declaring to the world by your life.. words and faith in Jesus... "He will". Commitment to Christ is religion of "I will"... where men can boast... have confidence in the flesh... and judge others by that commitment due to sin and yet bear false witness of themselves that they have kept theirs as if they had never sinned. It is what the religious world relate to as they see many mighty men and nobles willing to step up to that to be noted among men and to receive the praise of men. Use the King James Version if you want to find the actual use of the word "commit" in being used properly in the New Testament as being on the Lord for the word commit means to "entrust" thus being on the Lord. Some version will use commit only to half of what the King James applied His Word towards as they would use it to be on the believer to commit to do what is right when in the KJV, it is on the Lord in well doing in the keeping of our souls while we suffer according to the will of God. 1 Peter 4: 19Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. Read the first post again to see how that post testifies of what man cannot do as opposed to what Jesus can because He promised He would... thus the just shall live by faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redefine_Me Posted October 31, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 543 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/15/1966 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Hey Poor It might be helpful, in your initial posts, if you talked more about the point you were trying to make, instead of quoting lots of (wonderful!) scriptures that we aren't sure what they are tying to. Great scriptures in your original post! But they didn't seem to tie together and I couldn't figure out what 'point' you were trying to make with the scriptures. I really didn't know what you meant by "Those that resort to binding men to Christ are not fully preaching the Gospel." So, the verses you listed didn't help me follow where you were going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 31, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2007 I don't understand what you are saying here. in other threads, you have spoken of keeping our eyes on Jesus,, but now you are saying we are not supposed to commit our lives to Him? I don't get it. Making a commitment to Christ is taking your eyes off of Jesus in helping you live the christian life to looking to yourself by keeping that commitment to Christ or to follow Him as the means in living that christian life. Instead of Jesus being Lord over you... you allowed the commitment to Christ or the commitment to follow Him to rule over you. Your statement is unclear. Are you saying that those who are committing their lives to follow Jesus are not real Christians or are you saying that those who are trying to be Christians only by their works are not following Jesus. You can not put a blanket statement out there about all Christians who have committed their lives to Jesus. The just shall live by faith = relationship based on trust as in declaring to the world by your life.. words and faith in Jesus... "He will". Commitment to Christ is religion of "I will"... where men can boast... have confidence in the flesh... and judge others by that commitment due to sin and yet bear false witness of themselves that they have kept theirs as if they had never sinned. It is what the religious world relate to as they see many mighty men and nobles willing to step up to that to be noted among men and to receive the praise of men. This is your opinion only. If you are calling all Christians who have committed their lives to following Jesus as a religion of "I will", then I call this statement a down right lie! Use the King James Version if you want to find the actual use of the word "commit" in being used properly in the New Testament as being on the Lord for the word commit means to "entrust" thus being on the Lord. Some version will use commit only to half of what the King James applied His Word towards as they would use it to be on the believer to commit to do what is right when in the KJV, it is on the Lord in well doing in the keeping of our souls while we suffer according to the will of God. You should really get a concordance and a Greek dictionary that complements your concordance. Then you can look up the original meaning. 1 Peter 4: 19Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. Read the first post again to see how that post testifies of what man cannot do as opposed to what Jesus can because He promised He would... thus the just shall live by faith. Do you really believe that those who are committing their lives to Jesus do not live by faith? Your Brother In Christ, OneLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorinspirit Posted October 31, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 318 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/21/1963 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 Shalom Poor, What exactly are you saying? You see, your doctrine is unclear, your theology is mixed up and your posts are hard to understand. Please try to explain what point you are trying to make. Thank you. Hi Vickilynn, Nowhere are you going to find that Jesus has any confidence in men in keeping their commitment or promises to follow Him. If man could do it, He would not bother to come. No matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak thus what is impossible with man is possible with God. When sinners surrender to the Lord...they are giving up as in coming to the end of themselves and thus all their hopes are on the Lord to do it. Thus.. as the Lord saved them from their sins as the Saviour, He also leads them as the Good Shepherd in leading us away from temptations and deliver us from the evil one...for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. What is begun by the Spirit... is not going to be finished by the flesh by keeping their commitment to Christ or to follow Him. We follow Jesus by faith that He will finish His workmanship in us in His day of Christ Jesus. I rest that it is not by a persuasion of a man' speech, but God shall cause the increase. I can attempt to reason, but it is still all on Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted October 31, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted October 31, 2007 poorinspirit - you lost me. Let me ask this question, then: If you do not encourage a person to "commit their life to Christ," what do you encourage them to do instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorinspirit Posted October 31, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 318 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/21/1963 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 Hey Poor It might be helpful, in your initial posts, if you talked more about the point you were trying to make, instead of quoting lots of (wonderful!) scriptures that we aren't sure what they are tying to. Great scriptures in your original post! But they didn't seem to tie together and I couldn't figure out what 'point' you were trying to make with the scriptures. I really didn't know what you meant by "Those that resort to binding men to Christ are not fully preaching the Gospel." So, the verses you listed didn't help me follow where you were going. Hi Redefine_Me, I went back to edit the post by highlighting the area in scriptures. I put my trust in the Lord still to cause the increase. As Jesus spoke in parables... so in reading His Words, we should ask for wisdom. General theme... what is of man is of man.... what is of faith.. is of the Lord. Commitment speaks of man because he made it. Faith speaks of the Lord of His Covenant to us. As it is written... the just shall live by faith in following the Lord... not by how the world sees religious men by their commitments. The world cannot see that faith that He will do it if the commitments declares that the person will. John the Baptist would say.. I must decrease so that He may increase... thus we must decrease of our boasting in the flesh if the religious world is to see our faith and hope in Jesus Christ that He will help us live as His.... thus the just shall live by faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted October 31, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2007 Hi Vickilynn, Nowhere are you going to find that Jesus has any confidence in men in keeping their commitment or promises to follow Him. If man could do it, He would not bother to come. No matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak thus what is impossible with man is possible with God. When sinners surrender to the Lord...they are giving up as in coming to the end of themselves and thus all their hopes are on the Lord to do it. Thus.. as the Lord saved them from their sins as the Saviour, He also leads them as the Good Shepherd in leading us away from temptations and deliver us from the evil one...for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. What is begun by the Spirit... is not going to be finished by the flesh by keeping their commitment to Christ or to follow Him. We follow Jesus by faith that He will finish His workmanship in us in His day of Christ Jesus. I rest that it is not by a persuasion of a man' speech, but God shall cause the increase. I can attempt to reason, but it is still all on Him. Shalom Poor, So, what IS your point? This is a DISCUSSION board, BTW. You just want to preach. How's about discussing? I don't disagree with anything you've said here. But, in your other posts, you call man's commitments "heresy", and that is preaching false doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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