KeilanS Posted November 6, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,763 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/23/1990 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Hey there, I'm not sure if you're even reading responses anymore, but I'll take a shot. I do not believe God directly blesses a nation. We are not more blessed in North America than they are in Africa. What makes America appear blessed, is that we built our country on a Christian base. So couldn't doesn't directly bless us, but instead he instructs us in the way to build a great society, and we built one by following those teachings. God values freedom (He gave us free will) and so do our North American societies. That leads to a prosperous economy and wealth. God values hard work and discipline, and our societies value that which leads to a strong economy as well. That is largely where our material blessings come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted November 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I guess we share "last" in this thread, K. t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freefromfaith Posted November 11, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 I guess we share "last" in this thread, K. t. oh I'm still reading. I just haven't seen anything worth responding to. I truly feel sorry for you guys if you can't see the truth in the equality of the two sinners in my posts. Yup, equal in the eyes of any true god. So you muslims/jews and christians, keep believing that the other is less than worthy because of this arbitrary distinction. I'm sure it made the Crusades much easier to rationalize in the same way it is giving the current crop of suicide bombers a way to justify their behavior. Yup, you just keep on believing that. Can't you see that god is so much more than what the bible/torah/koran depict? I will pray for you. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted November 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Yes, I agree that there is much more to God than what has been revealed to us in the Bible. But, I also believe that what has been revealed to us is the truth. One of the things that has been revealed to us, and I dare the the single most important revelation of the Bible, is that Jesus is the one distinction between who is Saved and who is not. You may feel that there are other things which may help God in determining who makes it and who doesn't, but the Bible is clear: Jesus is the only way. People who do not accept Jesus as their Savior do not have a chance. Jesus is the single difference that causes the distinction. Jesus, and only Jesus. I'm sorry that you feel that God's plan of salvation is something not "worth responding to". t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.20 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2007 So what you are saying is that if God provides direct blessing He has been unfair because not everyone gets the same thing. Is that accurate? Yes, I guess that is what I am saying. You see, I think the world has a great many people who live a moral life and who are, apparently, unblessed. So why are they unblessed? In my opinion a moral person meets all of the criteria for "bless-ability". I cannot imagine a supreme being who, when presented with a good, moral person would say "well, you are exactly the kind of human being I cherish...however, I won't bless you because you don't believe in me". A supreme being that has to have its ego stroked? Sounds more like a human being. If someone does not believe in God, then why would they expect Him to bless them? Your argument holds no water. You also asked: If, for example, Americas prosperity is due to Gods direct intervention (blessings and grace are things God gives out), it is then true that God is withholding these blessings from countries that are not prosperous. Why would he/she do that? Can you imagine a God saying "to thee I grant freedom and delicious steaks at the Outback and to you I grant slavery and famine"? God allows things to happen for a reason. A lot of times, we do not see the reason until afterwards. If God so blesses Americans, as you say, then why is there so much sin in America? Being "blessed" would have to include not having sin in our presence for God hates sin. The blessing that I referred to before is that God continues to move in this country so we can worship him, and not be under laws as found in China. You also asked: Where is the logic in blessing you and not blessing a moral man who lives in Africa and doesn't believe in God? Is your God so starved for attention? Surely an all-powerful being would not suffer from such human-like ego issues. If I were standing in front of a person dying of thirst, holding out a glass of water to that person, but that person does not believe that I am there and does not see me because of their belief, how can that person take the glass of water? God has no "ego" that needs to be stroked. We have pride that needs to be humbled. Then you gleefully dance on what seems to you as the truth: Freefromfaith, I'm totally with you on this. I think what you are kind of getting at is what is called the Epicurean Paradox: "Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 .... less than worthy .... Can't you see that god is so much more than what the bible...... I will pray for you. Bless You How Exciting God Reads Our Posts So Please Do Let Me Know What God Says When He Answers SOME THINGS I HEARD WORTHY "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12 Oh LORD "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." Revelation 4:11 Of Love "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment." Mark 12:29-30 How Excellent Is Thy Name "O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens." Psalms 8:1 WHEN GOD SPOKE More That We'll Ever Know "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9 More Than We Can Ever Understand "The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee." Jeremiah 31:3 More Than We Could Ever Earn "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16 TONIGHT Hungry Hearts Find God "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13 And The Prayers Of The Upright Delight God "The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight." Proverbs 15:8 And We Pray "I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting." 1 Timothy 2:8 And Rejoice "But let all those that put their trust in thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee." Psalm 5:11 Covered By The Blood "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," Revelation 1:5 But We Weep "They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him." Psalms 126:5-6 Knowing How Little Time We Have. BE BLESSED BELOVED The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel, and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 Love, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freefromfaith Posted November 12, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 Yes, I agree that there is much more to God than what has been revealed to us in the Bible. But, I also believe that what has been revealed to us is the truth. One of the things that has been revealed to us, and I dare the the single most important revelation of the Bible, is that Jesus is the one distinction between who is Saved and who is not. You may feel that there are other things which may help God in determining who makes it and who doesn't, but the Bible is clear: Jesus is the only way. People who do not accept Jesus as their Savior do not have a chance. Jesus is the single difference that causes the distinction. Jesus, and only Jesus. I'm sorry that you feel that God's plan of salvation is something not "worth responding to". t. I think we have reached the standard end to an argument involving religion (note that I still won't type god in that spot You will continue to say that it is gods way and we can't question it and I will continue to say that I think the bible is immoral and not reflective of any true god. In fact, this ending is so standard that we should probably invent a name for it. Any ideas? It would be easy to just stop think thinking about this stuff....but I just can't. I see this type of unquestioning adherence to dogma all around me and it never has a good outcome. Most of the people I know that support the death penalty and think that the war in Iraq is justified and think that torturing terrorist suspects is ok are christians. Doh. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freefromfaith Posted November 12, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 If I were standing in front of a person dying of thirst, holding out a glass of water to that person, but that person does not believe that I am there and does not see me because of their belief, how can that person take the glass of water? The obvious, moral choice is to just give them the glass of water so they may live. How is God wicked when it is plainly seen that man creates his own path to walk down? We make our own choices in life and need to accept the consequences. The old saying, "You made your bed, now lay in it" is so true. God did not create puppets, but gave people free will to choose what they want to be-do-believe ... so I ask you again: then why do you keep asking God for his blessings? If you choose to ignore the sign, because you believe that the sign maker is a lier and does not tell the truth, and then choose the left path, who is at fault? You or the sign maker? I always check my gps before taking a turn You say you want to learn ... then start listening. Discussion subjects with earplugs in your ears will do you no good. I'm going to teach you math but you must start with the premise that 1+1=3. Ready: learn. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freefromfaith Posted November 12, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 Do you have children t? Would you treat your own children this way? If your child was lost in life and refused to accept your guidance, would you go to your grave saying "well, he messed up, didn't listen, I hope he suffers eternal pain". Do you see how ridiculous this is? Of course you would not think that way. You would go to your grave still hoping that he would turn things around. Who cares if it is you that causes the turnaround or someone else. Actually we do represent God's justice in dealing with our children. Also, being a child of God is different from being His creation. If you do not have Christ you are NOT His child, you are just His creation. When you are one with His enemy you are His enemy. The punishment that you are refering to is actually reserved for Satan, but for those who remain one with Satan will receive the same. I deal with my child different than I do with... say a dog. My child can do things that the dog could never do. Though my child may stray, and even to things contray to my will they are still able to be recovered becase they are my child. But let that dog do something that is contrary to my will (say bite me) then it is off to the vet to be put to sleep. Thats if I dont deal with it first. * Also I am not calling you a dog, but noting a difference. Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God Do you have His Spirit bearing witness with your spirit? yes, but do you give your child that has strayed a box and say: johnny, here is a box. If you straighten yourself out *AND* believe that the box holds a unicorn I will love you again. However, if you straighten yourself out but refuse to believe the box holds a unicorn you will suffer eternally. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freefromfaith Posted November 12, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 I will pray for you. Peace To whom, and through whom? to god obviously. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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