Do Babies Automatically Go to Heaven?

[ginakay]

We are all born with a sin nature and cannot inherit eternal life without the blood of Yeshua, even babies. I think all the ones who are too young to be held accountable by the Lord (age probably differs with different children) do go to Heaven. I also think that once they are there they are taught and come to understanding of the Truth and obviously accept it. I dont' think they are instantly able to understand, but that they have to grow and come to knowledge as they are taught. And of course I admit there is no scripture to back that up.

However, as to the rapture, I think only those who are looking for His coming will be taken. A parent who is looking for the Appearing would be a sanctification for the underage child so that if one of the babies/childs parents are taken in the Rapture then the child will go also. Otherwise I do not think children or babies will automatically go in the rapture. Again I can't give a scripture to back that up, other than the one that says He is coming for those who are looking for His appearing and that a saved person in a household sanctifies that household.

Okay throw all the pies at me---I admit these are my OPINIONS

[Dad Ernie]

We are all born with a sin nature and cannot inherit eternal life without the blood of Yeshua, even babies. I think all the ones who are too young to be held accountable by the Lord (age probably differs with different children) do go to Heaven. I also think that once they are there they are taught and come to understanding of the Truth and obviously accept it. I dont' think they are instantly able to understand, but that they have to grow and come to knowledge as they are taught. And of course I admit there is no scripture to back that up.

However, as to the rapture, I think only those who are looking for His coming will be taken. A parent who is looking for the Appearing would be a sanctification for the underage child so that if one of the babies/childs parents are taken in the Rapture then the child will go also. Otherwise I do not think children or babies will automatically go in the rapture. Again I can't give a scripture to back that up, other than the one that says He is coming for those who are looking for His appearing and that a saved person in a household sanctifies that household.

Greetings Ginakay,

You may want to read 1 Cor 15 and also consider that ALL who are the Lord's shall be "changed to be like Him". As you say, there is NO scripture supporting your theory.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[ginakay]

Yes Dad Earnie, I know that scripture. There are also several scriptures that speak of him coming for those who are watching for his appearing. We know there are babies during the time of the tribulation. Perhaps you think they are all born after the rapture but I think they are simply still with their unbelieving parents. Of course some will be born after the rapture.

If I am wrong, that is one thing I am happy to be wrong about. Sadly, I think one of the worst things about the tribulation is the children also suffering. Of course the ones who die would then go to heaven. When the flood came (which is used as a comparison by Yeshua ) the children of that wicked generation drowned along with their parents. That does not mean they went to hell, but they suffered in this life with their ungodly parents.

[Guest Berkana]

If a babie dies, it does go to heaven. "Original sin" means that we have a natural inclination to commmit sin because of our fallen flesh, not that we are guilty of sin. An infant, or even an aborted fetus, who hasn't yet heard a single moral command and who has not consciously done what he knows to be wrong is not guilty of sin. (Psalm 51, which contains the concept for original sin, has David saying that he was sinful from birth--inclined to sin--not guilty from birth.)

Romans 7:9

Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.

A child who dies before he hears the commandment and sins is in that state of being "alive apart from the law."

Does this mean that this is another way of salvation? Not exactly: a baby that hasn't yet sinned need not be saved from the penalty of his sin, so technically speaking, this is not salvation.

In fact, there is a scriptual example that makes this very clear: When David committed adultery with Bathsheba, he got her pregnant, but the child died. Here's what David said:

2 Samuel 12:19-22

David noticed that his servants were whispering among themselves and he realized the child was dead. "Is the child dead?" he asked.

    "Yes," they replied, "he is dead."

Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of YHWH and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.

    His servants asked him, "Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!"

    He answered, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, 'Who knows? YHWH may be gracious to me and let the child live.' But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

If you presume that dead infants go to Hell, the above passage would imply that David was going to Hell. This is not so: David was a man who was ultimately faithful to God; David would have been a man saved by faith just as Abraham was. If David was saved and was going to Heaven, surely this innocent infant child who died before having committed conscious sin was in Heaven as well.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Ginakay,

There are also several scriptures that speak of him coming for those who are watching for his appearing.

I can always appeal to the "thief on the cross". He was NOT looking for the Lord's 2nd coming. Babies, children, and the infirm cannot understand the 2nd coming of our Lord. There are going to be many who will be saved right up to the point of the Lord's coming. How many of them will be anticipating His coming? You cannot use that verse to support your theory, only that many are watching for His appearing which does not exclude others that may NOT be watching, but ONLY BELIEVING.

I would also like to add the following to the previous verses I offered. Even OUR WORKS were ordained "BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD".

2 Tim 1:7-10 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

We know there are babies during the time of the tribulation. Perhaps you think they are all born after the rapture but I think they are simply still with their unbelieving parents. Of course some will be born after the rapture.

Yes, there are going to be babies born during the "great tribulation". This is just one more supporting evidence of a post-trib, pre-wrath resurrection/rapture.

If I am wrong, that is one thing I am happy to be wrong about.  Sadly, I think one of the  worst things about the tribulation is the children also suffering. Of course the ones who die would then go to heaven.  When the flood came (which is used as a comparison by Yeshua ) the children of that wicked generation drowned along with their parents.  That does not mean they went to hell, but they suffered in this life with their ungodly parents.

I think that instead of being concerned about something that is perhaps yet future, you should put all your concern in the PRESENT lost generation and all the children that are being led astray. If you have a heart for seeing children taken care of and saved, perhaps you are being urged to get into that type of ministry.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[salt and light]

A person has to be born again in order to enter heaven,and babys were never born again, but since they know no sin and are too young to be held accountable for anything,they go to heaven I'm sure. It would make God seem very cruel to imply that He would send innocent babys to a burning hell. I believe since they are born with the sin nature,but yet can't sin,being born again in order to enter heaven would have to be for adults,people who know sin and commit them. I just can't imagin a little baby roasting in hell.

[jmwhalen]

Whenever this subject comes up, I often times find myself saying, "But what about in scripture where it says........?" I finally came to the following scriptures, after studying this subject for a couple of months(and hopefully avoiding the secular thought process of reasoning this out, and "sticking with the scriptures"):

" Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" Gen. 18:25

"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4

" Doth God pervert judgment? or doth the Almighty pervert justice?" Job 8:3

"Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment." Job 34:12

"To shew that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.' Psalms 92:14

The "bottom-line", where "the rubber meats the road", so to speak, is this: Do we Christians trust this wonderful God and Saviour we have, or don't we? I asked myself that question over and over-don't we all? I either trust Him, or I don't. Biblical trust is not defined in relation to a particular outcome, but in a person-the LORD God. We must grasp the fact that He is more committed to us than we will ever be to Him. The following passages seem appropriate:

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding..."(Proverbs 3:5)

"The secret things belong unto the LORD our God..." Deut. 29:29

Being finite, there are certain "secret things" our just God chooses not to reveal to us, and wants us not to"lean" on our own understanding, but instead trust in Him. Someone once said:

"Any little child can believe, for faith does not require knowing the facts about what God is doing. It requires only that I rest in the fact that God knows".

What about it fellow brothers and sisters, do we trust our great God and Saviour, or not?

I have included a couple of articles that I feel are well written on the subject(much better than anything I can add!)

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

_______________________________________________________

Does God Send Babies To Hell?

Berean Bible Church - Edgewater, Florida

The Church That Preaches What The Bible Teaches

There seems to be some discussion among the "brethren" regarding the eternal destiny of infants.

I, for one, disagree with the theory that God sends babies to hell, as we shall see.

The argument as I have heard it goes like this:

all have sinned

sinners end up in hell fire

we are sinners from birth

sin must be judged

so all sinners go to hell

It is a very logical argument but even logic must give way to the scriptures. Many in answering this thesis would use the "age of accountability" argument and in some arenas that would suffice. However the real question here is not of AGE but of UNDERSTANDING.

To use an acknowledged humanistic illustration, we as Americans do not and would not support capital punishment of a person that does not UNDERSTAND his wrong no matter what his age. But let us hasten to the scriptures and answer the question, "Does God impute sin where there is no understanding of sin or of God?"

God sends the children of the children of Israel into the land because they did not have enough understanding to reject God. -- Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

There is a time in life when a person does not receive the FULL measure of the consequences of wrong doing. It is in childhood, where understanding is being developed. Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Unborn children and yes aborted children are not capable of doing right or wrong and are there fore not culpable. Rom 9:11 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, ... Now, here is the real crux of the matter: If the dead will be judged in Rev 20:11-15 according to "their works," how can those who have no knowledge of good or evil (infants, young children) and those who have not yet done any "good or evil" (the unborn) be held accountable for their lack of understanding?

Understanding the w-o-r-d-s of the law was necessary in the giving and teaching of the law. Neh 8:2 And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.

God does not require children to understand doctrine and doctrine is necessary for redemption. Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

We could go on and on but that would belabor the point. We will close therefore with this: James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Gen 18:25 ... Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? Yes, HE will!!

_________________________________________________________________

Do Babies go to Heaven?

&

What about the Unborn?

Pastor Dave Siegmann

Fellowship Bible Church

310 N. Hiawassee Rd.

Orlando, Fl 32835

www.fellowshipbible.com

There is much confusion today in regards to where the unborn, or newly born babies go if they either are aborted, or die before they have a chance to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If all children go to heaven, then should not we as Christians be supporting abortion? Evangelism through abortion would be very successful. If these children would have been born, reality tells us that most would not have accepted Christ as their savior. They are with the Lord today only because they were not allowed to live. Also, why not kill our own children even after they are born, and before they are held accountable so they too can be assured of heaven. These are extreme ideas that I do not support.

In Deuteronomy 1:39 we read,

[stevehut]

If a babie dies, it does go to heaven. "Original sin" means that we have a natural inclination  to commmit sin because of our fallen flesh, not that we are guilty of sin.

Actually, that's not true. Original Sin was first defined by St. Augustine of Hippo, in his essay On the Merits and Remission of Sins, and on the Baptism of Infants.

It does say that we all inherit the guilt of Adam, not just the inclination.. Maybe I can dig up a direct quote another time.

Mind you, I have never believed in this. I do believe that since babies have not sinned, there is nothing to impede their entrance into heaven. The doctrine of Original Sin (I believe) is the main stumbling block that prevents people from understanding this.

[Work in Progress]

Does this mean that this is another way of salvation? Not exactly: a baby that hasn't yet sinned need not be saved from the penalty of his sin, so technically speaking, this is not salvation.

LOL, not "exactly". Too funny.

I am LOL @ all that are so "sure" of this man made doctrine of "age of accountability".

Is the Scripture really that awful, that we have to make up parts to appease us? LOL

I am also LOL @ the number of responses on this bait topic. Really! What's with this ressurection of the same old arguement that isn't even weeks old on this board? Anyone who has been on this board for a week, let alone those that have been here for a long time, know where everyone stands on this issue, and that it's been done to death, and that there are still standing, live topics on it. This is so transparant. And yet, people take the bait.........lol...........

[Guest Berkana]

I am LOL @ all that are so "sure" of this man made doctrine of "age of accountability".

Is the Scripture really that awful, that we have to make up parts to appease us? LOL

This doctrine is inferred from scripture; if this makes it "man made" to you, then so is the doctrine of the Trinity, which is also inferred from scriptural clues. Scripture isn't awful, and I have not "made up parts" to appease anyone. Do you not agree with what it says in 2 Samuel? David said that he would be with his deceased infant son.

If you don't like my wording, fine. Pretend I didn't say "this is not exactly salvation". I meant "this not salvation", because salvation is from the penalties for our sins. Infants do not inherit guilt for sins they did not commit. God spoke through Ezekiel, saying "the soul that sins shall die." In the same passage, it is abundantly clear that no soul is guilty for sins it did not commit.

Ezekiel 18:1-3, 10, 13-14, 17-20, 30

The word of YHWH came to me: "What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:

    " 'The fathers eat sour grapes,

    and the children's teeth are set on edge'?

    "As surely as I live, declares Sovereign YHWH , you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son-both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die. . . .

    "Suppose he has a violent son, who sheds blood or does any of these other things . . .

Will such a man live? He will not! Because he has done all these detestable things, he will surely be put to death and his blood will be on his own head.

    "But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things: . . .He will not die for his father's sin; he will surely live. But his father will die for his own sin, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was wrong among his people.

    "Yet you ask, 'Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?' Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

    "Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares Sovereign YHWH."

In addition to all this, It is clear from what Paul wrote in Romans 7:9 that there was a time before he heared the Law and sinned against it; infants and aborted fetuses are in that state. God does not condemn a soul for sins it did not commit. Why is this objectionable to you? This is not something I nor anyone else made up to appease anyone: it's doctrine right out of scripture. Why then do you dismiss this as "falling for bait"? This is an important matter; when the justice and mercy and the good character of God is challenged, I do not consider this "bait". If it is bait at all, it has drawn in those who question the justice and mercy of God, charging that He would condemn deceased infants to Hell for sins they have never committed.