Pre-Trib

[Guest kitkat]

as to your beliefs only you know why you believe them. If you read the thread "

"Pre trib based on false 70 weeks interpretation" you will see that pre trib has no basis in scripture.

You and other post-tribbers can post all the evidence to support your beliefs til the cows come home and it won't change the minds of pre-tribbers that have searched ALL the scriptures (with an open and obedient mind) concerning prophecy.

The assumption that post-tribbers make, is that pre-tribbers haven't asked for God's divine wisdom and revelation regarding THE TRUTH, while studying the scriptures. Such comments are judgmental and are done out of ignorance on the part of those that say them.

The claim has been made in this thread, that pre-tribbers don't post scripture to support and back up their beliefs, which is not true either. I've seen evidence of that in other threads.

It is futile for pre-tribbers to post scripture to support their interpretations and present it to post-tribbers, to only have it twisted and distorted to support their own views, theories and interpretations, thus turning it into a debate and a silly argument.

And what does the Bible have to say about arguing???

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Philippians 2:14-16 Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.

What does the Bibles have to say about disputes???

1 Corinthians 6:4-6 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!

Ephesians 4:30-32 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

2 Timothy 2:23-26 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

We all as Christians have a common goal here and isn't that goal to ultimately be with the Lord for all eternity?

So why dispute and argue these things? Such arguments are not of God when they bring about anger, hatred, disputes or diatribe. It's not worth risking the salvation of your souls trying to prove a point, is it? There's no promise of tomorrow for any of us.

Luke 4:4. And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

In Jesus Love,

Kitkat :hug:

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Wordsower,

You're not saying Israel is done are you? I'm thinking not since you refered to 1948.

[wordsower]

Kitkat,

Who is angry or arguing? I like Dad Ernie very much, I have known him on this board for a very long time and I respect his opinions and feel that he has a lot to offer and a great deal of knowledge. Just because we disagree on one point, that has no bearing on either of our salvation, doesn't mean we can't reason together on why we disagree.

Blessings to you.

Dad,

I think I agreed with everything you said. God not finished with the Jews, they are producing no spiritual fruit as of now, they must repent and turn to Him first. Agreed, agreed.

So, I kind of lost my train of thought on where we were.

My references to the banners seemed to indicate the rapture to me, a banner lifted up to the Jewish people. Such as in Is. 11:10-16--to provoke them to jealousy, as the older son (who had obeyed all of His father's commands from the beginning) was jealous when the prodigal was thrown the feast. (Marriage supper of the Lamb) In their minds, the Jews obey the laws, feasts and traditions so why would the Gentiles get the party? Do you see where I'm coming from?

[Guest kitkat]

well any wonder you have been deceived by heresy. I always wonder how a person can be deceived by satanic heresy and now i see why.

My post was in reference to the quote above and it wasn't meant to imply that exchanges shouldn't be made because of belief differences.

Please don't point a finger back at me. If you've read this whole thread, you'll see there was no reasoning going on from any of the post-tribbers.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Wordsower,

My references to the banners seemed to indicate the rapture to me, a banner lifted up to the Jewish people. Such as in Is. 11:10-16--to provoke them to jealousy, as the older son (who had obeyed all of His father's commands from the beginning) was jealous when the prodigal was thrown the feast. (Marriage supper of the Lamb) In their minds, the Jews obey the laws, feasts and traditions so why would the Gentiles get the party? Do you see where I'm coming from?

I don't think I'm getting it. The term "banner" is used 4 times in the OT. Have you looked at Isaiah 13? I see a strong correlation between that chapter and Mystery Babylon in the book of Revelation.

Jesus is certainly "our" banner, as the maiden in SoS says: "His banner of me is love." Banners, which are actually small flags or standards are "lifted up" as a rallying point for one's beliefs. Those who have carried the American flag into battle have a very important job. As long as the flag could be seen, it offered encouragement to keep the fight going.

There will come a day when "he" is taken out of the way and the Beast begins his war against the saints. Effectively we are left in a dry, arid desert with no water, no food and only "faith" to live by. It is during this time that the church will be purged of any dross and only those who are "abled to stand" shall stand. The rest will succumb to the Beast. The Lord will be beautifying His bride in preparation for the wedding ceremony.

God's whole intent from the very beginning is to "save the whole world" and NOT just Israel. Is not God the God of the Gentiles also? Yes indeed He is not just the God of Israel. So in the NT, we see this clearly. The Kingdom of God was taken from what was once the sole "ownership - if you can understand this" of Israel, and made a "Universal Kingdom" where there is neither Greek nor Jew, slave nor free, but all are made as one, and that is as Christ.

It was ONLY through Israel God wished to manifest manifest His presence - for thousands of years, right up to the cross. They gave us the law, the fathers and the prophets, and they are still loved by God because of THEM. So God is not finished with Israel yet, only their salvation "enmasse" comes AFTER "the fulness of the gentiles be come in (to the Kingdom of God)". We are deeply indebted to Israel and we now find it is OUR obligation to be "merciful" with them and take the Gospel to them whereever they can be found. They have been our "enemies" for the sake of the Gospel, but now as the gentiles are reaching their "fulness", we can be assured God is going to be changing their hearts to receive Him in this "fulness of time".

Well, there are many issues we can discuss, so as you see something in the scriptures, please raise them and I will do my best to respond.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Kitkat,

You and other post-tribbers can post all the evidence to support your beliefs til the cows come home and it won't change the minds of pre-tribbers that have searched ALL the scriptures (with an open and obedient mind) concerning prophecy.

The assumption that post-tribbers make, is that pre-tribbers haven't asked for God's divine wisdom and revelation regarding THE TRUTH, while studying the scriptures. Such comments are judgmental and are done out of ignorance on the part of those that say them.

The claim has been made in this thread, that pre-tribbers don't post scripture to support and back up their beliefs, which is not true either. I've seen evidence of that in other threads.

It is futile for pre-tribbers to post scripture to support their interpretations and present it to post-tribbers, to only have it twisted and distorted to support their own views, theories and interpretations, thus turning it into a debate and a silly argument.

I am sorry you feel that way. I continue to offer my willingness to discuss scripture with you, but this appears only to frustrate you the more. I have offered not only my opinion, but a concensus of expositors opinions as well, yet you refuse to address them. I am not in the habit of "twisting" the truth to fit "my agenda". Do you know what a "disciple" is Kitkat? It is someone who is "teachable". The Apostles give a good example of discipleship and you would well benefit by learning from them. They were not beyond cornering Jesus to discuss "the truth" with Him whenever there might be any misunderstandings. Are you willing to do the same?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest kitkat]

You totally misunderstood my post Dad Ernie.

[senerhu]

I am sorry you feel that way. I continue to offer my willingness to discuss scripture with you, but this appears only to frustrate you the more. I have offered not only my opinion, but a concensus of expositors opinions as well, yet you refuse to address them. I am not in the habit of "twisting" the truth to fit "my agenda". Do you know what a "disciple" is Kitkat? It is someone who is "teachable". The Apostles give a good example of discipleship and you would well benefit by learning from them. They were not beyond cornering Jesus to discuss "the truth" with Him whenever there might be any misunderstandings. Are you willing to do the same?

[Guest kitkat]

You and other post-tribbers can post all the evidence to support your beliefs til the cows come home and it won't change the minds of pre-tribbers that have searched ALL the scriptures (with an open and obedient mind) concerning prophecy.

The assumption that post-tribbers make, is that pre-tribbers haven't asked for God's divine wisdom and revelation regarding THE TRUTH, while studying the scriptures. Such comments are judgmental and are done out of ignorance on the part of those that say them.

The claim has been made in this thread, that pre-tribbers don't post scripture to support and back up their beliefs, which is not true either. I've seen evidence of that in other threads.

It is futile for pre-tribbers to post scripture to support their interpretations and present it to post-tribbers, to only have it twisted and distorted to support their own views, theories and interpretations, thus turning it into a debate and a silly argument.

And what does the Bible have to say about arguing???

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Philippians 2:14-16 Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.

What does the Bibles have to say about disputes???

1 Corinthians 6:4-6 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!

Ephesians 4:30-32 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

2 Timothy 2:23-26 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

We all as Christians have a common goal here and isn't that goal to ultimately be with the Lord for all eternity?

So why dispute and argue these things? Such arguments are not of God when they bring about anger, hatred, disputes or diatribe. It's not worth risking the salvation of your souls trying to prove a point, is it? There's no promise of tomorrow for any of us.

Luke 4:4. And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Senerhu,

I guess the same could be said of you dad ernie, do you know what the definition of a disciple is? Kitkat and others who share her veiw didn't just pull those views out of thin air...they are just that, legitimate interpretations. It is hypocritical of you to claim that your opinion and only your opinion is correct. I ask you the same question, are you willing to discuss the 'truth' or your opinion of it?