The Rapture Is Coming, (Watch ye) therefore

[Isa]

HI WordofTruth, How did you come to the conclusion that the "hour of trial" is just a term used in your reply as in this,

it's simply another way of stating a very brief period of time, seven years is nothing on God's timescale

If God had meant for a short time I would think he would have said so as he did when He said that satan would be loosed for a little season, in Rev 20:3. Every where else God is specific about His time, as Toni pointed out, right down to the last day as in Rev.3.

The same as in Rev.20:6, when He said we would reign as priests with Him for a thousamd years. To me, at least, that means a thousand years. not a consderable time. Furthermore seven years may be any length of time on God's timetable, but He was referring to the future earthly time table when John was penning the Revelation. Still I could be way out. If anybody really knew exactly when, we wouldn't be here debating it I guess.

cheers.

John 16:16

[Isa]

disagree, I believe time is very precisely accounted, but what seems to be a long time to us is not to the eternal God

That is what I am trying to say. Everything man does it goes by a clock a 24hr clock, but God's clock doesn't run by 24hrs it is an eternal clock. There are periods on Gods eternal time clock when He has dealt with man and there are still times on God's eternal clock where He deals with us , and there is still going to be times on God' eternal clock where He is going to deal with man. God's time is totally different to hour meannial 24hr clock.

2 Peter 3:8

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

To us to fit one thousand years into a day we just can't grasp it. that would mean there would be 8760000 hours. To me that a lot of hours manny days, weeks,months and years involved but to God it is a day. WOW

[Fraught]

Well, your mind is made up, but, thankfully, you will be proven wrong. In the meantime, stop calling what others believe a lie in your evil contempt. Be compassonate to other brothers.

i don't want you to get the idea that those of us against the theory of the pre-trib rapture have any kind of evil motive for our thinking. we are, instead, torn up inside over the idea that our brothers and sisters may end up turning away from the faith if this rapture does not happen. we are, instead, fired up with love to inspire to keep the faith no matter what may come, to stand in the gap, if you will. think about it a minute, if we could be convinced there was truth in this rapture theory, why would we not be all for it? i think we can certainly agree that it is a much more pleasant scenario!

[patricia1]

2nd timothy 3 describes the times before the return of Jesus..no?

2nd peter 3 also talks about it as well.

Look at verse 8 of chapter three...." But not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." in 2nd peter chapter 3

In Gods kingdom even the music knows no time, The last trump sound happens later and trumpets mean a 'call, ' to war, to assembly and so on. patricia1

[Massorite]

There is nothing in Revelation 3:10 that says the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air in a "secret" rapture.

"kept from the hour of trial"...plain english

it's pretty hard to be kept from something when you're right in the middle of it

you can only be proven wrong, give your silly (and evil) crusade a rest, man

You are putting words into scripture that are not there, my friend. That's cheating. Keep from the hour of trial in no way implies a pre-tribulation secret rapture.

"kept from the hour of trial" is in the Scriptures.

Actually, no Ovedya that is not what the scriptures say. Revelation 3:10 reads:Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall lcome upon alll the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Pre-tribbers rewrite the scripture to say: "Because thou has kept the word of my patience, I also will secretly rapture you off the earth so you can escape the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Who ever said that God HAD to take us out of this world to "keep us from the our of temptation" anyway.

When there were flies in Egypt there were non in Goshen, when the water turned to blood in Egypt the water in Goshen tasted sweet and was clear, when there were frogs in Egypt there were non in Goshen and when the angel of death came calling it was the blood of the Lamb that kept the people of God from the hour of death and God didn't have to take them anywhere to protect them.

We really shouldn,t be putting God in a box that limits His power and ability to keep His promise.

[Massorite]

"...could mean..."

Yea, since it has not happened yet, and the timing of the rapture is not clear, everything is basically a guess, or in other words, "could mean".

Could mean, means nothing in the bible.

[Isa]

There is nothing in Revelation 3:10 that says the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air in a "secret" rapture.

"kept from the hour of trial"...plain english

it's pretty hard to be kept from something when you're right in the middle of it

you can only be proven wrong, give your silly (and evil) crusade a rest, man

You are putting words into scripture that are not there, my friend. That's cheating. Keep from the hour of trial in no way implies a pre-tribulation secret rapture.

"kept from the hour of trial" is in the Scriptures.

Actually, no Ovedya that is not what the scriptures say. Revelation 3:10 reads:Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall lcome upon alll the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Pre-tribbers rewrite the scripture to say: "Because thou has kept the word of my patience, I also will secretly rapture you off the earth so you can escape the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Who ever said that God HAD to take us out of this world to "keep us from the our of temptation" anyway.

When there were flies in Egypt there were non in Goshen, when the water turned to blood in Egypt the water in Goshen tasted sweet and was clear, when there were frogs in Egypt there were non in Goshen and when the angel of death came calling it was the blood of the Lamb that kept the people of God from the hour of death and God didn't have to take them anywhere to protect them.

We really shouldn,t be putting God in a box that limits His power and ability to keep His promise.

Pre-tribbers rewrite the scripture to say: "Because thou has kept the word of my patience, I also will secretly rapture you off the earth so you can escape the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Could you please tell me where that verse is because I am a pre-tribber and I haven't seen it written that way.

I have seen in both old and new testament that shows that the church is taken out of away from raptured up to the heavens to be with the Lord. Yet as I said before we only get a part of the bible teachings with the post-tribbers, don't you have the old testament in your bibles when it comes to the rapture.

When we read the bible we can't just pluck out what makes our believes sound good. The Bible is not for private interpretation, the Bible interprets itself.

2 Peter 1:19-21

19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

[Isa]

There is nothing in Revelation 3:10 that says the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air in a "secret" rapture.

"kept from the hour of trial"...plain english

it's pretty hard to be kept from something when you're right in the middle of it

you can only be proven wrong, give your silly (and evil) crusade a rest, man

As christains and brothers we do not have to down grade each other we correct in love not belittling others. God is the only one allowed to repay with anger not us, if we judge then we are saying we are better than others. We are not we are all in the same boat we are forgiven sinners, so we need to show brotherly love.

We don't have to agree even if there is one right, it is up to God to convince the heart of the one who is wrong not us as individuals. We are the messangers so let's deliver with the love for each other that God has given us. Let's not be Pharisees

[Isa]

There is nothing in Revelation 3:10 that says the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air in a "secret" rapture.

"kept from the hour of trial"...plain english

it's pretty hard to be kept from something when you're right in the middle of it

you can only be proven wrong, give your silly (and evil) crusade a rest, man

As christains and brothers we do not have to down grade each other we correct in love not belittling others. God is the only one allowed to repay with anger not us, if we judge then we are saying we are better than others. We are not we are all in the same boat we are forgiven sinners, so we need to show brotherly love.

We don't have to agree even if there is one right, it is up to God to convince the heart of the one who is wrong not us as individuals. We are the messangers so let's deliver with the love for each other that God has given us. Let's not be Pharisees

I agree Isa we should do nothing in anger but some brothers''such as yourself and wordoftruth''refuse correction,and as true ambassadors of God's kingdom I as well as Toni should have righteous anger at others such as you two that spread satans lies

What makes you say that what I have posted is wrong I have used scripture from both old and new testaments to support the word of God. Yet you support what you believe with only the new testament.

Scripture interprets scripture not man.

2 Peter 1:20

knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,

Unless you can back your scriptures up with the old testament aswell then I will believe what God has shown me. Thank you kindly for your advice and challenging words.

The old testament shows the saints returning with the Lord at His coming and no they have not been raptured and then come back because then you would have to say that those who were on the earth would have to be only the wicked. We know this is not so Zechariah clearly says the Lord will save Judah first and bring them into Jerusalem, speaking of the earthly Jerusalem not the heavenly Jerusalem, and then He judges the wicked and Judah shall also fight at Jerusalem.

So I am sorry my friend I do not spread satan's lies either.

[Guest faithfulwitness]

Indeed you do spread satans lie along with any other teacher of the pretrib doctrine.

how you are not banned astounds me...if anything is "satan's lie" it's every word out of your mouth