The armies of the Lord

[exrockstar]

I don't think the tribulation saints can be part of this army, and here is why:

Revelation 20:4-5 4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

I guess they could come down with the Lord at this time, but I think the tribulation saints are set apart from the church and the OT saints, simply because of what they have gone through, but that is pure conjecture on my part. And as you said, I don't the OT saints will be part of this army because of what Daniel is told. I think it is simply the church in view here.

I think the tribulation saints return with the Lord and the church saints because they reign together with the Lord during the Millennial period. They have gone through nothing different than what the fore fathers of the church went through with martyrdom.

tribulation saints do not come with Jesus.

they do reign together in the 1000 year reign.

what is different of the trib saints and the "forefathers" is that trib saints will not receive the Holy Spirit.

The comforter is gone and the simple act of believing in Christ has turned into "proving by dying."

Some feel as though the Holy Spirit will still be here during the trib but i do not believe that.

[eric]

from ex's post,

tribulation saints do not come with Jesus.

they do reign together in the 1000 year reign.

what is different of the trib saints and the "forefathers" is that trib saints will not receive the Holy Spirit.

The comforter is gone and the simple act of believing in Christ has turned into "proving by dying."

Some feel as though the Holy Spirit will still be here during the trib but i do not believe that.

If the Holy Spirirt is not here during the trib, who is going to convict the non believers?

No Holy Spirit = no conviction.

No conviction no= repentance

No repentance = no salvation.

If the trib saints don't receive the Holy Spirit, how can the be called saints.

another heap of pre-trib rapture false rubbish.

[eric]

Addendum;

Nobody goes to heaven until after the thousand years of kingdom reign Of Christ....Revelation 20:6

[Isa]

from ex's post,

tribulation saints do not come with Jesus.

they do reign together in the 1000 year reign.

what is different of the trib saints and the "forefathers" is that trib saints will not receive the Holy Spirit.

The comforter is gone and the simple act of believing in Christ has turned into "proving by dying."

Some feel as though the Holy Spirit will still be here during the trib but i do not believe that.

If the Holy Spirirt is not here during the trib, who is going to convict the non believers?

No Holy Spirit = no conviction.

No conviction no= repentance

No repentance = no salvation.

If the trib saints don't receive the Holy Spirit, how can the be called saints.

another heap of pre-trib rapture false rubbish.

Is not Abraham called a saint and the Holy Spirit wasn't around in those days to convict them it was by faith in what God had promised them that they were saved and also called saints of God.

Even if the Holy Spirit was not here, the tribulation saints will believe by faith, it is their faith in the testamony of the two witnesses which brings them to the knowledge of Christ and salvation through that knowledge. Don't forget you have the angel flying around the earth preaching the gospel message and you have the 144,000 who are also preaching the gospel message. The tribulation saints will believe by faith.

1 Samuel 2:9

He will guard the feet of His saints,But the wicked shall be silent in darkness.

[exrockstar]

from ex's post,

tribulation saints do not come with Jesus.

they do reign together in the 1000 year reign.

what is different of the trib saints and the "forefathers" is that trib saints will not receive the Holy Spirit.

The comforter is gone and the simple act of believing in Christ has turned into "proving by dying."

Some feel as though the Holy Spirit will still be here during the trib but i do not believe that.

If the Holy Spirirt is not here during the trib, who is going to convict the non believers?

No Holy Spirit = no conviction.

No conviction no= repentance

No repentance = no salvation.

If the trib saints don't receive the Holy Spirit, how can the be called saints.

another heap of pre-trib rapture false rubbish.

you'll have the 144,000, the two prohets and angels.

yep, angels will be preaching the gospel. i got that in scripture but i wonder if anyone has found that?

reason is because someone pointed it out to me and couldnt beieve how my eyes didnt see that before.

edited: i just caught that Isa is saying the same thing.

[Isa]

Addendum;

Nobody goes to heaven until after the thousand years of kingdom reign Of Christ....Revelation 20:6

So these saints aren't in heaven praising and singing to God.

Revelation 15:2-4

2 And I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who have the victory over the beast, over his image and over his mark and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, having harps of God. 3 They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying:

[eric]

The 144000 witnesses are only that...witnesses preaching the gospel.... Preaching the gospel does not save people. That is the job of the Holy Spirit. There are hundreds of thousands of people today preaching the gospel, but preachers cannot save them. No one is saved without the infilling of the Holy spirit.

As I said the millennial reign with Christ, which comes after the resurrection of the living and the dead saints, which comes after the tribulation and after God pours out His wrath. Then after the thousand years have passed, the present earth will be restored to a place fit For God to bring down His Kingdom and reign from the throne in the new Jerusalem for all eternity

And, ex, where does it say in the word that the Holy Spirit was not around during the OT. If you take the time to rean pslam 51, you will find that David asked the Father in verse 11 "to take not thy holy spirit from me." However it is good for people to ask questions and I do my best to explain my take on scripture, and if someone can show me I'm wrong, then I will rethink my opinion. As I understand the souls of the OT saints were released from the paradise side of sheol when the veil was torn from top to bottom just after the crucifiction and Jesus gave up the ghost,......but check it out in case I am wrong. I wii listen, I asure you.

[exrockstar]

And, ex, where does it say in the word that the Holy Spirit was not around during the OT.

So Chrsit is introducing the HS that shall come after Him.

John 14:

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

the Holy Spirit will be sent to earth to be with man.

Hence, His arrival,

Acts 2:Acts 2

1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

yes?

[Isa]

I don't believe the Holy Spirit is taken away. Just because the church has gone doesn't mean the Holy Spirit has gone. The Holy Spirit I believe is what convicts the tribulation saints of the truth.

Christ says He would never leave us nor forsake us. If He withdraws the comforter then is that not leaving us and forsaking us.

Hebrews 13:5

Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said,

[eric]

sorry, Isa but you have me confused. Nowhere at any time have I even suggested that the H/S will leave the earth, or taken away before all saints the living and the dead are resurrected.

Ex,

because God's people ignored the warnimg of the word He gave to the prophets, concerning worshipping other gods and idols along with their other sins, He came Himself in the person of Jesus Christ to preach the gospel of salvation. Jesus was also rejected by most and was crucified, but was risen by the Father, whom Jesus said would send the H/S to annoint the apostles on the day of pentecost, so they could tell the whole world about the power of God unto salvation.

The Father, Son and the Holy spirit, are, and have always been one, since eternity past and have been revealed to the world as God sees His necessity so to do. I am not as articulate in explanating as I would like to be, but that is the core understanding of the bible as I see it, and I stand to be corrected.