The Great Whore of the Revelation (chp 18)

[HeatherEljohari]

I tend to disagree with this world would be better off without Islam. Their culture, in general, im not going to attack individual terrorists. Their culture has far better divorce ratings than this country, with better family values. and sexually transimitted diseases are on a low. Because of their religious beliefs which most govts abide by. Whereas USA is surrounded with STDS, HIV, hepatitis, and other wonderful goodies. I believe God wanted us to be pure from sexual obscurities yet the USA, highly ranked, is full of diseased... which I believe, in most cases, is the result and consequences of our behaviors. Also there have been many, many killers, serial-killers in fact in USA, and beyond, who kill so violantly its beyond my mind to grasp. If you ask me where living among terrorists. Theres terrorists everywhere in this world.... not just one religious or cultural creed. God says we should detest all evil things, if thats the case we are going to be disgusted about many things which is happening right in our own country. I do tend to feel as though we are humans and are prone to horrible flaws and sins. But- I do feel if we honestly go to God, and ask for forgiveness he will give it.

Shiloh I really didnt mean any offense, and I have no Ill feelings towards you... these are just my feelings... and Im not perfect... so take it with a grain of salt.

God bless~

Heatherxxxx

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Reminder;

Abuse of other posters is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, name calling, insulting, harassing, threatening or in any way invading the privacy of another poster. We also strongly discourage giving out personal information such as email addresses, physical addresses and phone numbers on the public boards. Any information given out in private is at your own discretion and risk. (Eph. 4: 29)

Debate the subject, not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person. Respect each other in the love of God! This is the main reason that threads get stopped, shut down, and even deleted! Users that cannot respect others will be banned. (Lev. 19:18)

Le

[nebula]

God bless~

Hello, Heather -

I hope you don't mind me asking, but considering the subject at hand I need to know -

When you say, "God," who do you mean? Do you mean Allah? Or do you mean "the Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit"?

If the latter, then why did you marry a Muslim? Or was that before surrendering to Jesus as your Lord and Savior?

Thanks!

[sweetycakes]

Grace to you,

Reminder;

Abuse of other posters is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, name calling, insulting, harassing, threatening or in any way invading the privacy of another poster. We also strongly discourage giving out personal information such as email addresses, physical addresses and phone numbers on the public boards. Any information given out in private is at your own discretion and risk. (Eph. 4: 29)

Debate the subject, not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person. Respect each other in the love of God! This is the main reason that threads get stopped, shut down, and even deleted! Users that cannot respect others will be banned. (Lev. 19:18)

Le

[Kansasdad]

Hunting the Whore of Babylon

a response to David Hunts assertion that the Whore of Bablyon is the Catholic Church.

This comes from a Catholic web sight so I can not post the link, but I did want to make full disclosure.

Hunting the Whore of Babylon

Some anti-Catholics claim the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon of Revelation 17 and 18. Dave Hunt, in his 1994 book, A Woman Rides the Beast, presents nine arguments to try to prove this. His claims are a useful summary of those commonly used by Fundamentalists, and an examination of them shows why they don

[Kansasdad]

From what I can see the only candidate that fits every description is ancient pagan Rome.

Am I missing something here?

[MrsSealedEternal]

The most basic problem I see in boiling it down to it must be ancient pagan Rome is that much of the prophecies in Revelation have not reached their full fulfillment yet. While I believe they indeed play a role in the understanding of what this Revelation of what the whore is, it is only a smaller piece of the puzzle.

[MrsSealedEternal]

Since there is so much speculation on rome and roman paganism, I though some people might enjoy a virtual tour of the place and see some of it for themselves...

Virtual Tour of Rome

[Kansasdad]

The most basic problem I see in boiling it down to it must be ancient pagan Rome is that much of the prophecies in Revelation have not reached their full fulfillment yet. While I believe they indeed play a role in the understanding of what this Revelation of what the whore is, it is only a smaller piece of the puzzle.

I think a problem also exist in that people do not understand the symbolism in the language and do not consider that Revelations was written during a time of extreme persecution and they had to write in a cryptic way, or be killed. One example is with numbers. Certain numbers had meaning attached to them that had nothing to do with the actual number. The number was conveying a concept not an actual measurement. This is where we get all the time setting and date setting. It comes from taking a number literal when it was figurative. 144,000 is a great example of this. That number is full of conceptual meaning, not a literal counting. 1 day is as a thousand is another. The largest number they knew in those times were thousands. There was no concept of larger numbers. So figuratively the message is that one day to God is like the largest number you can think of....Now does that completely blow holes in some lines of thinking?

God Bless,

K.D.

[nebula]

Ok, I'm going to try to tackle this.

I believe the whore of Revelation is unfaithful Israel.

Revelation 11:8

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

How does Rev. 11 become correlated with Rev. 17-19?

Drunken with blood of saints and martyrs.

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Rev 18:20Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

Matthew 23

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Although this was true of Jerusalem when Jesus spoke this, can you say this of current Jerusalem?

In the past 200 years, more Christians have killed Jews than Jews have killed Christians - for one.

For another, in which countries were and are the most Christians (saints) being killed in the past century? Is it not places like Sudan, India, Vietnam, Iran, China,...?

Finely Clothed

Rev 17:4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Ezekiel 16

10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.

11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.

12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.

13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.

14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel's prophecy of Jerusalem concerned her status before the Babylonian captivity. Her punishment came through Babylon. Her restoration came during the Medo-Persian Empire (Babylon's predecessor).

Her glory never returned to the Pre-Exile status. For Jerusalem was still under the Medo-Persian rule, then the Grecan rule, than the Roman rule, then left to the Gentiles after 70 AD.

Jerusalem is now mostly under the control of the people of Israel once again, however that status is threatened. Plus, the description of being decked out in gold and fine linens and precious stones woud be more descriptive of New York, LA, or Paris than it would Jerusalem today.

A Great Whore

Rev 17:2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Ezekiel 16

15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.

16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.

17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,

Again, Ezekiel was speaking of Jerusalem back then, which is why the Lord sent Judah into captivity. Can you provide the prophecies concerning the End Times where Jerusalem is called a harlot or prostitute?

For another perspective, though, Jerusalem is not the only city to be called a prostitute/harlot:

Isa 23:17 - At the end of seventy years, the Lord will deal with Tyre. She will return to her hire as a prostitute and will ply her trade with all the kingdoms on the face of the earth.

Nahum 3:1-7

1 Woe to the bloody city! it is all full of lies and robbery; the prey departeth not; 2 The noise of a whip, and the noise of the rattling of the wheels, and of the pransing horses, and of the jumping chariots. 3 The horseman lifteth up both the bright F14 sword and the glittering spear: and there is a multitude of slain, and a great number of carcases; and there is none end of their corpses; they stumble upon their corpses: 4 Because of the multitude of the whoredoms of the wellfavoured harlot, the mistress of witchcrafts, that selleth nations through her whoredoms, and families through her witchcrafts. 5 Behold, I am against thee, saith the LORD of hosts; and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will shew the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame. 6 And I will cast abominable filth upon thee, and make thee vile, and will set thee as a gazingstock. 7 And it shall come to pass, that all they that look upon thee shall flee from thee, and say, Nineveh is laid waste: who will bemoan her? whence shall I seek comforters for thee?