How Were the Jews Saved?

[Guest shiloh357]

Dear shiloh,

I would think that you would be rejoicing that someone else is encouraging an obedience to Christ. I personally find great comfort, when I am encouraged by the Word of God, to continue in following Him. There is no stumbling in encouragement to obey Christ. I am not offended by it, when I see posts by someone who promotes the righteousness of the Work of Christ Jesus in us! These are blessings! They are supposed to be an encouragement and blessing, shiloh. Not something to be angered by. We are supposed to promote the obedience that Christ Jesus works in us! This is the UNITY IN THE BODY! We are all supposed to grow up in this.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

In His Love,

Suzanne

You are completely missing the point. I am not offended when someone promotes righteousness. I live in righteousness. Why would I be offended at it???? I am offended at the condescending arrogance you display toward the rest of us when YOU present it. I did not criticize or disagree with anything Dennis said. I criticize the way you portray the rest of the church as if we are all a bunch of pagans or that we all love to sin or something.

My problem with this is not the message, but the way it is presented to us, namely that we all hate the idea or even the very mention of obedience. I am probably more obedient than you are. I am all about holiness, I just find your approach to the issue distasteful because you cannot seem to discuss this without the pretext that most of the church is living in sin, and that is something you are not qualified to judge.

I know what obedience is, and I have had to sacrifices friendships and other things I would have liked to have just to be obedient. I don't need any instruction from you on this.

[tsth]

Dear shiloh,

I didn't say you did need instruction from me. The reason my posts probably come across the way that they do, is because the fruit of this nation does not convey a church walking in obedience to Christ. That is not my fault. That's just the way that it is. And the church has become just as stiff-necked as those of the "temple". They don't want to hear it. Believe it or not, I am a part of "the church". My husband is a preacher. That doesn't mean that we don't examine ourselves, the body. If we don't, we are likely to be labeled as "hypocrites" too. We have to be willing to see where we are, as a nation, and why we are in the condition we are in.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[LightofJesus]

Shiloh,

Well I just need to say something here. I was an alcoholic, I used drugs and smoked cigarettes----until JESUS!!!! Now I want to know if this makes me less of a Christian just because of what I used to do?????? Does this constitute I am disobedient, oh yeah I've been married three times and now a widow. I even hope to marry again! Boy now I am really in for it!

I guess I would really like to know what you have to offer someone in the world that is like what I was like?

[Guest]

I guess I would really like to know what you have to offer someone in the world that is like what I was like?

"Jesus Christ And Him Crucified"

I Hear Brother Shiloh357 Speaking Out Against Apparent Condescension Toward The Body By The Body.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:1

I Have Never Heard Him Condemn A Repentant Humble Believer.

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mark 2:17

We Are Not To Rob God.

We Have No Saving Works

We Have No Brag Except In Jesus Christ And Him Crucified

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9

Our Job Is To Abide

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

John 15:1-5

And To Love One Another

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

John 15:12

And Yet Still Love One Another

These things I command you, that ye love one another.

John 15:17

And When We Are Finished For The Day

Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

Philippians 2:3

Still Love One Another With Psalms And Hymns And Hearts Singing To Our Lord

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Ephesians 5:19

Hallelujah!

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[tsth]

How important is obedience to the faith?

1 Peter 2

4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, "Behold, I lay in Zion A chief cornerstone, elect, precious, And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame." 7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, "The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone," 8 and "A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Vickilynn]

And I would request that you find where that has been stated anywhere? For I do not believe that. Nor does Dennis, lest I couldn't be in agreement with him.

I am not accusing you or Dennis or anyone in this thread of that, but there have been, on this board, those who believed that works are necessary for salvation.

Which you and some others, seem to get riled over, when it is mentioned.

No, what I get riled over is the condescending tone in which these subjects are usually introduced and when you refuse to answer plain and simple questions that are put to you.

You always introduce these subjects as if the rest of us are a bunch of godless pagans who lust after sin while YOU are standing as the only beacon of holiness standing against the tide of unrighteousness. You may not mean it that way, but that is how you come across.

Let me tell you something Suzanne... I am not trying to brag or exalt myself, but just to give you some perspective of who you are speaking to, I am almost 41 yrs old and still a virgin. I have never been drunk, I do not drink, a cigarrette has never touched my lips, nor has any tobacco product. I have never used any drugs like cocaine, pot, or whatever. I have never even touched a woman intimately. I have never been arrested and have no record. I have never stolen anything in my life. 90% of the people on this board could not relate to how I live. I am a faithful, tithe paying member of my church.

I have kept myself pure, and am more than qualified to discuss this issue. I live what I believe and I know all about the price and sacrifices that obedience to God brings with it.

You need to stop acting like the rest of us in the church are just a bunching sin-loving heathens. It gets really, really old.

Shalom Shiloh,

I so appreciate you sharing about your life (and making yourself vulnerable to attacks). But, your testimony has greatly increased my faith as a Christian parent of 5. You are living the way that I pray my children will one day live and everyone keeps saying that in this world one cannot live as you, Shiloh, lives. You are a testament to the faithfulness of G-d in keeping you pure unto Himself. Thank you so much for sharing this, I know it wasn't easy.

Also, since MY own testimony is one of living in sin until I became saved and then for many years afterwards, I see how you are standing as an example of G-d's forgiveness, as HE makes us righteous by faith and it is OUR responsibility to talk it out in obedience. Again, thank you.

[Vickilynn]

Dear shiloh,

I didn't say you did need instruction from me. The reason my posts probably come across the way that they do, is because the fruit of this nation does not convey a church walking in obedience to Christ. That is not my fault. That's just the way that it is. And the church has become just as stiff-necked as those of the "temple". They don't want to hear it. Believe it or not, I am a part of "the church". My husband is a preacher. That doesn't mean that we don't examine ourselves, the body. If we don't, we are likely to be labeled as "hypocrites" too. We have to be willing to see where we are, as a nation, and why we are in the condition we are in.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Shalom Suzanne,

Obedience also includes humbleness and gentleness.

Edited to add: Suzanne, I addressed these comments to you in response to your "obedience" question.

[Vickilynn]

I guess I would really like to know what you have to offer someone in the world that is like what I was like?

"Jesus Christ And Him Crucified"

I Hear Brother Shiloh357 Speaking Out Against Apparent Condescension Toward The Body By The Body.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:1

I Have Never Heard Him Condemn A Repentant Humble Believer.

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mark 2:17

We Are Not To Rob God.

We Have No Saving Works

We Have No Brag Except In Jesus Christ And Him Crucified

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9

Our Job Is To Abide

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

John 15:1-5

And To Love One Another

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

John 15:12

And Yet Still Love One Another

These things I command you, that ye love one another.

John 15:17

And When We Are Finished For The Day

Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

Philippians 2:3

Still Love One Another With Psalms And Hymns And Hearts Singing To Our Lord

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Ephesians 5:19

Hallelujah!

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

Shalom Joe,

Your posts always BLESS the Body of Messiah.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tsth]

I SO agree vickilynn. But, that does not guarantee that someone will still not be offended.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Pilgrim7]

Hang in there Suzanne,

Today any attempt to expose the deplorable condition of 'professed body of Christ' will be met with derision, accusations of judgmentalism, condescension and being unloving. That is the price you will pay for trying to be a reformer. When one cannot refute your presentation of truth, the only thing left for them to do is to accuse.

Don't be discouraged. Just look at how John the Baptist was treated by the 'professed church' of His day. Look at Jesus who was the head of the church, and what happened to him. Then there was Jeremiah etc. Look at the early church reformers, and all the martyrs, most were murdered by the church that they tried to reform, myriads burned at the stake inorder to reform a church that had 'fallen away' from God. This is mild compared to that.

And what do we have today, confusion on every side, every wind of doctrine blowing. All the main doctrines of Babylon being taught as christian truth.

Just look at the main point being discussed here. Works are evidence of Salvation, yet they have nothing to do with Salvation. That is like saying that fruit is the evidence of a good tree, but has nothing to do with being a good tree.

Works have nothing to do with Justification, being forgiven and receiving the 'new heart', but they have every thing to do with Sanctification, which is the Christian walk thereafter, and is thus just as much a part of Salvation process as is justification. You are warring against their precious doctrine of OSAS. This is Why the law of God is so necessary, for it exposes this 'anti-nomianism' for what it is. You see the essense all Pagan religion, which had it beginning in Babylon, is religion and worship without the laws of God, thus false worship. Thus everyone is left to their own imagination when it comes to worship and behavior. This made them their own God.

I appreciate the fact that Shiloh is living a holy life, doing all that the Scripture call holy, including His Holy Law, a sure sign of being saved, which includes loving all and speaking and posting with grace. Yet the OSAS is leading many to presume on the grace of God and live lives that give no evidence of Christ dwelling in the heart. Just look at the controversy on any 'christian board', hardly evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who leads all into all truth.

Lets see what Paul says about that:

1co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Hmmm.

God Bless you Sister, always speaking the truth in love, but always speaking the truth, the whole counsel of God.

Dennis