Absolute Good or Evil?

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Oh' by the by,

You speak as though your a believer but you wear the label of nonbeliever.

I am wondering who you believe Jesus Christ is.

Peace,

Dave

[the_interactionist]

Grace to you,

However, you did say that they are a "balance". That there is a balance between Good and Evil in the universe. I beg to differ, the Good has indeed won and is only waiting to make full His Victory. There is no Balance, the Good far outweighs the evil, it is only our limited human perspective that is flawed.

The yin and the yang do not go back farther than God Himself, Judeo/Christian thought springs forth from the well head that is God. God prexisted human thought.

By the way, opposites would connotate a flip of the coin with both sides being equal. This is not the case with God and satan. satan is a cheap fallen imitation of God, or at least that is his purpose. He is not a flip of the coin, he is beneath the coin itself and dreadfully deceitful to even make mention that he is the balance.

Peace,

Dave

I see your point. I agree that the good outweights the evil due to the immanent return of Christ and that His glory is foreordained; however, in the present time I still feel that good and evil are balanced in the universe by the acts mankind carries out, as a result of the influence of either God or Satan on their lives. I'm not saying mankind is forced by God or Satan. I say influenced very intentionally. In the idea of Spiritual Warfare, we fight against "principalities and powers" that influence our lives and it is our own choice as to whether we live a life of good or of evil. The powers that be, are God and Satan, the influences of our decisions and thoughts.

And with balance, specifically the Yin and Yang form, there is no equal because there is a little bit of good in that which is evil and a little bit of evil in that which is good, both being to varying degrees. No absolutes here. That sort of balance is more directive towards mankind than towards God or Satan.

So are you saying you don't believe God is absolute good and Satan's absolute evil? Or is it more like you don't believe they're opposites?

For Satan to be equally opposite of God would be accurate, would it not? In this scenario, the opposite side of the coins doesn't necessarily accurately reflect the type of opposite I'm trying to convey. The two opposing sides of a coin are referring to physical surfaces which take up space and that have mass. They are equally balanced. They really can't accurately reflect the "kind" of opposite I'm describing here because it's not one of quality or quantity, but of a spiritual matter. I guess what I'm saying is that this kind of opposite isn't in regards to Satan's power being equal to God's in the universe. It's about Satan being the opposite of God and that in human life we are faced with a "balance" of spiritual influences (good or evil?) which we must choose to live our lives from.

If God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good, then Satan must be none of these. Is this correct? Therefore, Satan is the opposite, and not equal in potential power, with God. Satan would then have to be NOT all-knowing, NOT all-powerful, and NOT all-good.

You're saying this isn't the case? This is the "opposite" and "balance" I'm trying to convey. Satan, being absolute evil, is opposite of God which is absolute good, thus the two are balanced in this respect. Maybe I didn't explain myself thoroughly. Again, this isn't a balance of power between God and Satan, for we believe the forthcoming victory of Christ is foreordained and Satan's limited power is irrelevant anyways. This balance I'm referring to is simply in regards to the balance that exists as "principalities and powers" right now in our human existence, the balance of influence on our decisions and lifestyles.

Do you understand what I mean now?

[the_interactionist]

Grace to you,

Oh' by the by,

You speak as though your a believer but you wear the label of nonbeliever.

I am wondering who you believe Jesus Christ is.

Peace,

Dave

I don't wear the label of non-believer by choice. It was given to me, I'm guessing, by the moderators because when I first came on this board, I didn't believe in the specific idealisms and doctrines upheld on this forum. Thanks to a select few, I've come back to God and Jesus. I went through a time when I didn't believe in God at all and deeply scrutinized and questioned his existence, kind of like that jabber-mouth Richard Dawkins. I was a bit of a nuisance, posing annoying questions to anyone who was willing to listen to my rhetoric, but I've repented and turned my ways. My time researching the Bible and its potential accuracy and the issues of innerancy that surround it in modern culture, and I'm proud to say that I've come to my senses.

I also study a lot pertaining to other pop-issues, namely science and physics, as they pertain to religion. The two are related and that's a good thing for Christians and believers, whether they want ot accept it or not. Most Christians think of science and immediately shun it for not being "of God," but as we'll soon see, it has its place in religion and will become a great tool for us to use in ministering to agnostics and atheists. Dawkins and like have thier work cut out for them!

As for your question about Jesus: I believe Jesus is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life." Simple answer, I know. But I believe that really sums it up.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Let's be clear about what it means for Him to be the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Can you expound on that premise a little?

The reason, if you don't belong under the nonbeliever status, I want to remove you from it.

I'm understanding your opposites premise a little more, however, I still maintain that the Principlaities and Powers are not opposite God in power but in nature. They are an opposed force for sure, but no where near having an equivalent power to God Himself.

and a little bit of evil in that which is good,

This quote is exactly what I'm talking about. There is no little bit of evil, at all, in Good. Especially when were talking absolutes.

That is a lie. If there is a little bit of evil mixed in with the Good then God "could be" a liar.

Now, if your speaking on human terms, then there is a distinct possibility that works performed in the flesh can in fact be evil. Yet Christians are called to works that were pre-ordained in Christ Jesus for us and our subsequent Salvations. Therefore when we walk these out, there is no room for us to boast and neither any claim to be made as to their veracity or content, because we are merely doing in the Spirit what we would not naturally be inclined to do.

Peace,

Dave

[the_interactionist]

Grace to you,

Let's be clear about what it means for Him to be the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Can you expound on that premise a little?

The reason, if you don't belong under the nonbeliever status, I want to remove you from it.

I'm understanding your opposites premise a little more, however, I still maintain that the Principlaities and Powers are not opposite God in power but in nature. They are an opposed force for sure, but no where near having an equivalent power to God Himself.

and a little bit of evil in that which is good,

This quote is exactly what I'm talking about. There is no little bit of evil, at all, in Good. Especially when were talking absolutes.

That is a lie. If there is a little bit of evil mixed in with the Good then God "could be" a liar.

Now, if your speaking on human terms, then there is a distinct possibility that works performed in the flesh can in fact be evil. Yet Christians are called to works that were pre-ordained in Christ Jesus for us and our subsequent Salvations. Therefore when we walk these out, there is no room for us to boast and neither any claim to be made as to their veracity or content, because we are merely doing in the Spirit what we would not naturally be inclined to do.

Peace,

Dave

Re: Jesus - I believe Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and that no one comes to God except through Him (John 14:6); Emmanuel, God with us (Matt. 1:23) - I believe that Jesus came to "fulfill all righteousness" (Matt. 3:15) - I believe in all the teachings of Jesus Christ, all His commandments, because they are God's commandments.

I believe Jesus died for us, that we may have life and have it more abundantly.

As for what we were talking about concerning good and evil, I think we're really saying the same thing. I don't believe God is good with a little bit of evil in Him and Satan, evil with a little bit of good. The reference I'm using is in regards to humanity. There is undoubtedly a spriritual influence, either God's or Satan's, in all our lives and we must choose which will govern our decisions. Again, mankind has the potential for evil or for good, and it all goes back to what choices we make.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Re: Jesus - I believe Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and that no one comes to God except through Him (John 14:6); Emmanuel, God with us (Matt. 1:23) - I believe that Jesus came to "fulfill all righteousness" (Matt. 3:15) - I believe in all the teachings of Jesus Christ, all His commandments, because they are God's commandments.

I believe Jesus died for us, that we may have life and have it more abundantly.

Sounds on the mark, is He God come in the flesh? I don't mean to be nitpicky either, we are exhorted to test the spirits.

Otherwise it sounds like you and I agree, friend. Let's go further and see if were brethren.

Peace,

Dave

[the_interactionist]

Grace to you,

Re: Jesus - I believe Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and that no one comes to God except through Him (John 14:6); Emmanuel, God with us (Matt. 1:23) - I believe that Jesus came to "fulfill all righteousness" (Matt. 3:15) - I believe in all the teachings of Jesus Christ, all His commandments, because they are God's commandments.

I believe Jesus died for us, that we may have life and have it more abundantly.

Sounds on the mark, is He God come in the flesh? I don't mean to be nitpicky either, we are exhorted to test the spirits.

Otherwise it sounds like you and I agree, friend. Let's go further and see if were brethren.

Peace,

Dave

Yes. I believe Jesus was God in the flesh. Hence, the reason I quoted Him as Emmanuel (God with us, Matt. 1:23).

[spiffy]

Comin' in late, but here's my two cents worth....

Is there such a thing as "absolute" good or evil? Why do you think so?

Although either would be at least logically possible, both would not be possible simultaneously.

Consider:

* The things that correspond to good....unity, harmony, love, systemization, life, etc.

* and those that correspond to evil.....discord, strife, hate, chaos, death, etc.

The nature of evil, if it occupy more than 50% of any thing, is to corrupt and bring to inexorable chaos and destruction, while good leads only to benefit greater in all respects until it reaches whole perfection.

Hence: God, who desires naught but the (eventual) greatest good--perfection--could never allow evil to reach the "absolute" stage because it would destory the greatest Good and source of all other goods, Himself. Here, an apparent conundrum: absolute evil is both logically possible and impossible.

[~~ angelique ~~]

Comin' in late, but here's my two cents worth....

Is there such a thing as "absolute" good or evil? Why do you think so?

Although either would be at least logically possible, both would not be possible simultaneously.

Consider:

* The things that correspond to good....unity, harmony, love, systemization, life, etc.

* and those that correspond to evil.....discord, strife, hate, chaos, death, etc.

The nature of evil, if it occupy more than 50% of any thing, is to corrupt and bring to inexorable chaos and destruction, while good leads only to benefit greater in all respects until it reaches whole perfection.

Hence: God, who desires naught but the (eventual) greatest good--perfection--could never allow evil to reach the "absolute" stage because it would destory the greatest Good and source of all other goods, Himself. Here, an apparent conundrum: absolute evil is both logically possible and impossible.

Wow... that is an interesting answer... I am going to have to think on that one..

[MorningGlory]

Do this little experiment. Take a black piece of paper (sin, darkness) and mark the middle with one drop of white ( God, light). You will notice the absolute difference.

OneLight

Then why don't I see a difference?

You don't see the difference between black and white???