Works / Faith in the Believer

[kari21]

I think it is pretty clear what he is trying to say,it just doesn't fit your position,so you are forced to try and change the meaning,instead of accept God's word.

That's funny...you are doing that very thing on the "catching away" thread in regard to God hating people. What the Scriptures say do not fit your preconceived position, so you just IGNORE them.

[Guest shiloh357]

I think it is pretty clear what he is trying to say,it just doesn't fit your position,so you are forced to try and change the meaning,instead of accept God's word.

You seem to operate from the same kind of selective application of Scripture yourself. You shouldn't be throwing stones at others.

[Guest]

I feel there is a message being said here that is extremely offensive to the crucifixation of Jesus Christ for OUR sins. The price Jesus paid for my sins in NO way fell short. I am saved ONLY by faith in the blood of Jesus Christ and absolutely NOTHING ELSE.

[Vickilynn]

so i dusted off my bible and removed the cobwebs from it to give some things to think about:

this "faith" that is being bounced around back and forth starts from James 2.

It says:

James 2

1My brethren, have (hold) not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

the word "with" means "ek" in greek.

Ek is "out from." It is as many have been saying....an outward expression/movement of your faith.

James just confirmed this in the vers in Chapter 1 "22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves."

This faith in believing in Christ is to be placed in action. Actions do not come from this faith.

These actions cannot say how much you believe in Christ.

It's as though some one gave you a hammer then you are expected to build a house.

If you don't build a house that does not mean you do not have a hammer.

James confirms this by this verse: James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. "27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. "

Practice what you preach.

This is not a salvation issue.

This is just a lazy Christian that will not receive earthly nor heavenly blessings (james 1:25).

Shalom EX,

WOW, what a great illustration. Thank you. Amen Bro!!

[Vickilynn]

I feel there is a message being said here that is extremely offensive to the crucifixation of Jesus Christ for OUR sins. The price Jesus paid for my sins in NO way fell short. I am saved ONLY by faith in the blood of Jesus Christ and absolutely NOTHING ELSE.

Shalom Emily-Anne,

You hit the nail on the head. The message being said in opposition to the OP is that what Jesus did on the Cross, isn't GOOD enough. He needs MY help to complete it. That message IS offensive to His complete work on the Cross, for my sins.

[Thaddaeus]

Emily Anne,

You need to take a look at verse 9.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith

[Thaddaeus]

Vickilynn,

You hit the nail on the head. The message being said in opposition to the OP is that what Jesus did on the Cross, isn't GOOD enough. He needs MY help to complete it. That message IS offensive to His complete work on the Cross, for my sins.

then those that so understand it do not understand what the Bible is teaching relative to the Work of Christ and man's response to the offer of Christ to enter into His Kingdom.

Christ's work on the Cross did not enter you into the Kingdom. It provided the means, the ability, the opportunity for mankind to have union with God, WHICH IS WHAT MAN FELL FROM DUE TO THE FALL.

Christ saved mankind from the fall, death and sin. Our faith does not save us from death and sin. Man, a dead mortal creature cannot save himself, meaning man cannot grant life to himself by any thing he might do. He also cannot propitiate his own sins, let alone the sins of the world. This is what Christ did for mankind, Eph 2:5 spells it out quite clearly which aligns with Rom 5:18-19, I Cor 15:20-22, Col 1:15-20, Rom 11:32 and severeal more. None of these verses is speaking of the salvation of ones soul. The salvation of ones soul is totally dependent upon man and that man answers the Call of God to repent, to believe, to enter into His Kingdom. It is a synergistic, mutual, cooperative work. the same work Adam was doing before he fell, and to which we are restored due to or because of the Work of Christ on the Cross. Christ is the Second Adam, He reversed the fall. What man lost due to the fall, was restored by Christ through His resurrection.

Those who believe that faith has anything to do with Christ's work and that it either adds, subtracts or changes it in any way do not understand the Gospel and the purpose of Christ coming and the purpose of man being created in the first place.

Christ is not going to do what God created man to do. It costs Him the life of His Son so you could fulfil the created mandate, which is to be in union with Christ, freely.

[Emily~Anne]

We do good deeds out of reverence to God and as a form of worship to God, and out of pure trust for God. Never for the purpose of gaining salvation. Deeds are no good if for the wrong purpose.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Thaddaeus,

An excellent apologetic on this topic from CARM. Here is an excerpt, the entire response is here:

http://www.carm.org/catholic/faithalone.htm

The following is a list of verses about being saved by faith. Please take note that faith and works are contrasted. In other words, we are saved by faith "not by works" and "apart from works," etc. The point is that there are only two options. We are saved by faith alone or we are not. Since we have faith and works (both conceptually and in practice), then we are either saved by faith alone or by faith and works. There is no other option.

If we see that the Scriptures exclude works in any form as a means of our salvation, then logically we are saved by faith alone. Let's take a look at what the Bible says about faith and works. Then, afterwards, we will tackle James' statement about "faith alone."

1. Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."

2. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness."

3. Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

4. Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."

5. Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

6. Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

7. Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

8. Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

9. Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

10. Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

11. Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not by works, lest any man should boast."

12. Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

Again, works/Law is contrasted with faith repeatedly and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith, not by faith and our works; hence, faith alone.

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[Vickilynn]

But as individuals we are not saved BY faith.

Shalom,

We are saved BY and THROUGH faith.

See the Scriptures posted in my post above.