Works / Faith in the Believer

[stan4257]

We are all saved by Grace through faith. The topic is faith without works is dead..... It is sort of like somone saying Hey ya got faith...let me see ya prove it!!! ( in street language)

Faith requires action just saying you have it is worthless.

Obeying Jesus requires movement in faith.

That is why I believe one can not grow further than their faith. How can they.?!

How can they?

Do you think the Peter was suggesting a way?

"Make every effort to add to your faith goodness;

and to your goodness, knowledge;

and to knowledge, self control;

and to self control perseverance;

and to perseverance, godliness;

and to godliness, brotherly kindness;

and to brotherly kindness,love."

Not that he was suggesting that faith itself could actually grow, though he may have been, but he does indicate that faith on its own without all those other things is rather a dry argument.

Just imagine a person calling themselves Christian because they believed/had faith, without having goodness, knowledge, self control, perseverance, godliness, kindness and love in their lives.

It seems from what Peter writes that it is possible.

[Vickilynn]

I do not know why things get so confusing...

Vickilyn I loved your sigh...I almost heard it.

Shalom Patricia,

Oh, that's SO funny! That WAS a loud sigh, wasn't it?

We are all saved by Grace through faith. The topic is faith without works is dead..... It is sort of like somone saying Hey ya got faith...let me see ya prove it!!! ( in street language)

Faith requires action just saying you have it is worthless.

Obeying Jesus requires movement in faith.

That is why I believe one can not grow further than their faith. How can they.?!

Exactly, amen! I heard it said that Jesus wants to see our faith and man wants to see our works.

to this thread

Thank you! I think it's an important topic.

[PreciousRubi]

Actually that was my thought as well, This has been hashed over so many times, it just gets difficult to start over again. I think if you look for threads about losing ones salvation you will find much.

God Bless,

K.D.

Sometimes people just like to go over things.....It can often help to clarify one's thoughts by rehashing the info.

[Guest Biblicist]

Actually that was my thought as well, This has been hashed over so many times, it just gets difficult to start over again. I think if you look for threads about losing ones salvation you will find much.

God Bless,

K.D.

Sometimes people just like to go over things.....It can often help to clarify one's thoughts by rehashing the info.

And sometimes, it helps to just ask the question straight out and hope to get a straight answer.

[Blien]

Here is the way I see it... Grace is given by God. BUT......

Matthew 7:22-24

22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:

Luke 6:46

46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

47 Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like:

48 He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock.[

...you can loose it!

There are some more like these in the letters by paul and the others but I think there is a reason why God said by faith alone and then said this about loosing your salvation. God makes this point so that we dont become lazy and think we can slip back into our sinful ways because we have the blood of the lamb! No no no... the key point we have to watch out for is lawlessness.... we must examin ourselves constantly. Are we praciticing righteousness or practicing lawlessness?? This was his (jesus) exact words... you who practice... lawlessness.. If a believer does not hold fast the laws of God even though he is Born Again he can loose it!

If you practice righteousness and slip but return back to following God's laws and practicing to become Holy then you have the blood of the Lamb to save you. This is how I see it.

[Guest]

...you can loose it!

There are some more like these in the letters by Paul and the others but I think there is a reason why God said by faith alone and then said this about loosing your salvation. God makes this point so that we don't become lazy and think we can slip back into our sinful ways because we have the blood of the lamb! No no no... the key point we have to watch out for is lawlessness.... we must examine ourselves constantly. Are we practicing righteousness or practicing lawlessness?? This was his (Jesus) exact words... you who practice... lawlessness.. If a believer does not hold fast the laws of God even though he is Born Again he can loose it!

If you practice righteousness and slip but return back to following God's laws and practicing to become Holy then you have the blood of the Lamb to save you. This is how I see it.

It Is All Of Jesus!

Abide In Him And You WILL Bare Fruit, Abide Not And ....

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

These things I command you, that ye love one another.

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.

He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 15:1-26

Love, Joe

[Guest Biblicist]

One can not bear fruit without being grafted into the Vine.

If you are not bearing fruit, maybe you are not grafted in.

What fruit are we talking about here?

Galatians 5

16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

[Vickilynn]

And sometimes, it helps to just ask the question straight out and hope to get a straight answer.

Shalom Bib,

Exactly!!

[Vickilynn]

Here is the way I see it... Grace is given by God. BUT...... <snip> ...you can loose it!

Shalom Blien,

Now we get down to the REAL issue. Can one "lose" their salvation?

The answer is no. A Believer may give up his/her salvation and choose to turn again to serve sin, but salvation, given as a free gift, cannot be taken from us without our choice.

Matthew 7:22-24

22 Many will say to Me in that day,

[Blien]

I disagree... he WAS talking to believers. Even John Bevere says this about that verse. Here is something I didn't add to my posting above.

Grace is given by God but we can loose it, yes he will never take it away.. but you ask how? WE WALK AWAY. Which is why Jesus said you who practice lawlessness. This is the second death, walking away from the truth! Being lured back to the the ways of the world!

Revelation 21:8

6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. [salvation but... ->] 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Notice he said the unbeliving seperate from the vile the adulterers the cowardly, etc.?? I've often walked in my walk with Christ and was reminded many times by God about this verse because I was being cowardly in my walk...

Hebrews 3

Jesus Greater Than Moses

1Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess. 2He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house. 3Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. 5Moses was faithful as a servant in all God's house, testifying to what would be said in the future. 6But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.

Warning Against Unbelief

7So, as the Holy Spirit says:

"Today, if you hear his voice,

8do not harden your hearts

as you did in the rebellion,

during the time of testing in the desert,

9where your fathers tested and tried me

and for forty years saw what I did.

10That is why I was angry with that generation,

and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray,

and they have not known my ways.'

11So I declared on oath in my anger,

'They shall never enter my rest.' "[a]

12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:

"Today, if you hear his voice,

do not harden your hearts

as you did in the rebellion."

16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Was not the book of Hebrews for belivers? Yet they are talking about unbelief and sin! The Exodus has been said to be a foreshadowing of the events to come, and the kind of walks in faith we have to do as believers and not be lured back to the Baal's of life. Remember Christ went into the deseret before his ministry began to be tempted by the Devil.. just imagine what would have happened if Christ gave up in all his temptations!! Wow, THANK GOD!

So Sin's deceitfulness can cause our heart to become hardened and again filled with unbelief...! What was it God said to Ezekiel the prophet? I will take away their stony hearts and give them a new one??

Ezekiel 36:26

26 And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart.

This is why I endevour to be living above sin all the time and constantly examine myself if I have the Mind of Christ. So that Sin's deceitfulness does not have a way in my life by some stealthy move, we all know how crafty the Devil is.