Mental Illness, why is it treated as a sin?

[Scarletprayers]

I turned my son in to the police when I found out he had committed and illegal act. That was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever made. But, him getting arrested took him out a potentially dangerous situation, got him away from drugs/alcohol and also got him some help, it started out forced help, but after his meds kicked in and the other stuff was out of his system, he started leveling out.

I have also had to call the police and tell them he was suicidal since I couldn't make him go to the hospital.

I have kicked him out of my home, and refused to enable him, hoping to wake him up.

Sometimes I did the wrong thing, and sometimes I did the right thing, it was done out of love at times, and yeah, even a couple of times anger, but it was always done with the hope that he would get himself to a place where he could receive help.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

Another EXCLLENT post from our sister on this topic. I think she sums up my position and G-d's position so nicely!!

you said "all the problems one will face begins with selfishness" and to a certain extent I believe this and here is just one example why.

Take the little infant who was sexually abused by her father from the cradle until she was taken away from him at the tender age of 8. Another couple fosters her with the hopes of adopting her, but with many reservations as you see she was a very scary little girl. She would take butcher knives and be standing by her foster mothers bed ready to strike her with it until she woke up. She was very manipulative and did many other things that would make your hair stand on end. This is a true story. There was a movie made about her and there are many other children just like her.

But was it her "selfishness" that made her that way? No. Some say it would be the transferring of demonic spirits from her dad to her. I dont know. Doesnt seem fair does it? I mean she was innocent. A child, but one living a nightmare that i just cant possibly imagine.The psychiatrist that examined this little girl said it as as if she did not have a soul, or a conscience.

Now i am not saying that all mental illness is a result of some horrific thing that happened in ones childhood. But some mental illnesses are.So yes in a sense what you say is true, in the fact that all the problems this little girl faced began with selfishness, but it was not HER shelfishness, its was that of her father.

Did you know that Alzhiemers is classified as a mental illness? Have you ever seen someone in the last stages? They are combative, agressive, they curse and swear ect... I remember whe I was in nursing school doing my clinical rotations. I had the privlidge of taking care of such a person. This lady was once the choir director for many years had in fact devoted her life to God. Oh my! The things she would yell out when i would be feeding her.

One day some ladies from her church came to visit and this lady was screaming out some things that I cannot post here, taking the Lords name in vain ect...

Of course this same lady didnt know any of the other ladies who came to visit her anymore.

These church ladies were very offended by what came out of their friends mouth. They asked me to please give her some medicine to make her shut up. I told these ladies that I could not for that would be what we call in the medical field a chemical restraint. If this lady was up walking around and was a threat to others then i could give her something but since she was bedridden and could not even remember how to walk anymore, I coldnt just keep her doped up.

They left and never came back. I thought, how sad, they too may one day end up like this. We never know. 2 weeks went by and I did not see the lady with Alzhiemers then one day I went to work and they asked me if I would go feed her breakfast. So I sat next to her bed and starting to sing some old hyms that I knew she would know and while I was feeding her she started to yell out and curse and take the Lords name in vain ect..

One of the other nurses stuck her head in the door of the room and i will never forget what she said. She said "Oh my, Mrs. Doe is in rare form today, she has not spoken in several weeks and she seems very alert today, I think she like it when you take care of her."

Of course in my judgemental attitude I thought well, she doesnt like the songs im singing or she wouldnt be screaming out such obsceanities. But i have since learned that was not the case. She was not in her right mind. She has Alzhiemers. But i asked why would God allow one of His children to end up like that? I simply do not know.

If what these ladies told me is true about Mrs. Doe, how she taught sunday schol for over 50 years and led the church music and the heart that she had for the Lord is true, then I have no doubts that I will see her again one day, with a sound mind and body, praise His name.

I ask those who would consider it, go visit someone in a nursing home, go visit the sick, maybe even go to a mental health hospital. Be a friend to those who would otherwise be outcast because of their conditions. I promise you, you will be blessed. Let Messiah Yeshuas light shine thru you to those who live in darkness and whose minds are broken for whatever reason.

[Axxman]

now that we have established that not all mental illness is unrepentant sin and some of these truly ill people cannot "just repent and get over it", the question comes in HOW to handle some of the things that they do that are:

I don't think that was established AT ALL. All that was established was that it was difficult to discuss the root cause of mental illness because people have emotional attachments to their personal situations. However, just because some people didn't want to hurt or "pile on" to the pain of people they respect by continuing the convo does not in any way indicate that a consensus was established.

Not ONE person offered a shred of medical evidence to support what you have 'established.'

I'd also like to add that I never said "repent and get over it." I said "repent." God never said that if you repent you won't be tempted to return to your sin. Many people diagnosed with so-called mental illnesses are addicted to their drugs and their actions, and it requires just as much effort and faith to overcome those addictions as it does for a newly born-again alcoholic to overcome his addiction to alcohol. Now...that is not to say that I have not seen God heal people of their desires and addictions...but that usually isn't the case with repentance. Repentance usually takes effort.

I feel real bad for some of you and the situations that God has placed you in, and I do not wish to add to that...but I sincerely believe that the proper way to view this issue is spiritually and not through the flawed science of man.

[Scarletprayers]

Axx, I love ya, but I truly believe the correct way to view this is through the eyes of God and not what man says it might or might not be, since that would only be his/her, mine/yours opinion.

If you are wrong, and it is a mental illness then you are judging people that cannot help themselves and are placing your self in the position of having to answer to the Lord for it. If we are wrong, well we might be alittle gullible, but, it was Jesus who said He desired mercy and not sacrifice..........I'll stick with His take on it!

[Vickilynn]

now that we have established that not all mental illness is unrepentant sin and some of these truly ill people cannot "just repent and get over it", the question comes in HOW to handle some of the things that they do that are:

I don't think that was established AT ALL. All that was established was that it was difficult to discuss the root cause of mental illness because people have emotional attachments to their personal situations. However, just because some people didn't want to hurt or "pile on" to the pain of people they respect by continuing the convo does not in any way indicate that a consensus was established.

Shalom Axx,

It is established by the Word of G-d that man cannot see into another's heart and make a judgment concerning sin.

I understand that your opinion is that mental illness is not real, but that doesn't make it truth, I'm sorry.

And, as I replied in a similar thread, there are plenty of REAL medical illnesses that have no specific test to diagnose them. The diagnosis is made by ruling out other diseases and assessing the symptoms. You know that if you know anything about the medical field. So, the argument that there is no medical test for mental illness is not a valid argument to disprove the reality that mental illness IS a real illness.

I challenge you to PROVE your opinion that mental illness is not real illness. You cannot by the same standards.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Dear Ones,

As the OP I just want to plead with everyone not to take people's posts personally. We do not know your particular situation and cannot accurately assess it. Nor should we!

I'd really like to have the discussion without people feeling as if they are being condemned personally, as I know that is not anyone's intentions.

I know this is an emotional topic, especially for those of us who live with loved ones struggling with mental illness, but let's discuss this objectively and not personally.

[Axxman]

Shalom Dear Ones,

As the OP I just want to plead with everyone not to take people's posts personally. We do not know your particular situation and cannot accurately assess it. Nor should we!

I'd really like to have the discussion without people feeling as if they are being condemned personally, as I know that is not anyone's intentions.

I know this is an emotional topic, especially for those of us who live with loved ones struggling with mental illness, but let's discuss this objectively and not personally.

Hey Vickilynn...

I sincerely appreciate this post. I so DO NOT desire to hurt anyone, but I really feel for this topic because I have dealth with it personally and professionally. I promise I don't feel condemned...and I promise to try to deal with the issue gently.

I have had many discussions with most of you...and hope to in the future. Whether we agree or not.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Dear Ones,

As the OP I just want to plead with everyone not to take people's posts personally. We do not know your particular situation and cannot accurately assess it. Nor should we!

I'd really like to have the discussion without people feeling as if they are being condemned personally, as I know that is not anyone's intentions.

I know this is an emotional topic, especially for those of us who live with loved ones struggling with mental illness, but let's discuss this objectively and not personally.

Hey Vickilynn...

I sincerely appreciate this post. I so DO NOT desire to hurt anyone, but I really feel for this topic because I have dealth with it personally and professionally. I promise I don't feel condemned...and I promise to try to deal with the issue gently.

I have had many discussions with most of you...and hope to in the future. Whether we agree or not.

Shalom Axx,

I hear ya and appreciate it! Let's discuss the issue and I pray that people will understand that no one is pointing any fingers at them personally or trying to speak to anyone's specific situation.

I won't be offended if you disagree with my experience with my loved ones or my views.

[Axxman]

Shalom Axx,

It is established by the Word of G-d that man cannot see into another's heart and make a judgment concerning sin.

I understand that your opinion is that mental illness is not real, but that doesn't make it truth, I'm sorry.

And, as I replied in a similar thread, there are plenty of REAL medical illnesses that have no specific test to diagnose them. The diagnosis is made by ruling out other diseases and assessing the symptoms. You know that if you know anything about the medical field. So, the argument that there is no medical test for mental illness is not a valid argument to disprove the reality that mental illness IS a real illness.

I challenge you to PROVE your opinion that mental illness is not real illness. You cannot by the same standards.

Its kind of hard to prove a negative. I agree that there are medical issues that are difficult to diagnose. The difference is that medical doctors give diagnosis' and treatments based on medical evidence. For example, they 'thought' my wife had lupus since she showed signs of that (FMS can have those symptoms) so they gave her medicine to treat lupus. There were medically qualified symptoms and treaments for what they thought she had. Doctors are not infallible, they do not have ALL the answers...but they base their treatments on the qualified medical information they have at that time.

Psychiatrists are totally different because they have NO qualified medical information to base their diagnosis on. They base their diagnosis on the Diagnostical Statistics Manual (DSM- its literally the psychiatrists bible). The DSM is not based on ANY medical knowledge whatsoever...none! It is based on the statistical opinions of psychiatrists who vote at the APA Convention each year. You basically have people with no medical background and no medical proof, voting on the statistical likelyhood of certain traits that may be traced to disorders that there is no medical evidence to prove exists. Then they describe drugs, that are not intended to cure, but rather alter the mental state of the person taking them to make them feel better. Its a conundrum at best. Thats not opinion...thats how its done.

Now...my opinion is...that the drugs that they prescribe hold the person in bondage to their sin. Keeping them in an altered state makes them addicted to the drug and doesn't enable them to repent and turn from their sin. I believe (admittedly my opinion) that in many cases the negative behavior becomes an addiction as well because of the attention and the need for the drug.

[Vickilynn]

Its kind of hard to prove a negative.

Shalom Axx,

But, if that's your standard, it goes both ways. If there is no definitive test FOR mental illness, you can not RULE OUT that mental illness is present. You see?

I agree that there are medical issues that are difficult to diagnose. The difference is that medical doctors give diagnosis' and treatments based on medical evidence. For example, they 'thought' my wife had lupus since she showed signs of that (FMS can have those symptoms) so they gave her medicine to treat lupus. There were medically qualified symptoms and treaments for what they thought she had. Doctors are not infallible, they do not have ALL the answers...but they base their treatments on the qualified medical information they have at that time.

When I was being diagnosed for FMS they thought I had lupus. However, there ARE blood tests for lupus (ANA etc.) which we negative. So, I did not receive medication for lupus. At the time, there were no medical tests other than subjective symptom assessment to diagnose FMS. This is the same criteria with mental illness. They rule out other diseases and see if the patient displays certain symptoms of the mental illness. It is just as valid as with the medical illnesses.

One person in my life I am close to is clinically depressed. I'd rather not go into all the details, but suffice it to say, he had no control over what was happening to him - the auditory and visual hallucinations, the suicidal thoughts, the erratic and violent behavior. Many things transpired, including many of his Christian friends saying that he should just repent and pull himself up by his bootstraps and back to serving G-d. He tried and failed and felt more condemned and more depressed because he was constantly being told that it was HIS FAULT and that he could get over it if he just trusted Jesus enough and surrendered himself enough.

Well, he FINALLY got the help he needed, including several medications and he is much much better! No hallucinations, no suicidal tenancies, no violence etc. In this person's case, his chemical imbalance (physical cause) resulted in his mental illness and is being successfully treated with medication and Christian counseling.