WN: Heavy Qassam barrages hit Negev - Ynet News

[Ingelosi]

Looks like we have another anti jew in our forums. Well to me it does any way.

PLEASE do NOT say that about me. I am not anti Jew, nor am I anti Muslim. I have a great deal of respect for Jews and Muslims, they are our sister religions but need to be brought to the light. But NOT by killing them even if they kill even one of us. This fighting MUST stop so we can get down to some proper evangelizing. They are all intelligent people and deserve more respect than Qassam rockets, and suicide bombings.

Please don't relate the desire for peace with the dislike of any cultural group. I resent that VERY much.

Edited January 18, 2008 by Ingelosi

[eric]

Looks like we have another anti jew in our forums. Well to me it does any way.

PLEASE do NOT say that about me. I am not anti Jew, nor am I anti Muslim. I have a great deal of respect for Jews and Muslims, they are our sister religions but need to be brought to the light. But NOT by killing them even if they kill even one of us. This fighting MUST stop so we can get down to some proper evangelizing. They are all intelligent people and deserve more respect than Qassam rockets, and suicide bombings.

Please don't relate the desire for peace with the dislike of any cultural group. I resent that VERY much.

Great balls of fire.....you are a pacifist. There can be no peace on earth until the return of the Lord Jesus , who comes as the conquering King to rid the world of the enemies of God and fulfil His covenant with His people, the jews.......to put it briefly.... I am only a gentile and I resent you lumping jews and muslims together, as sister religions. Jews are God's chosen people and are a peace loving nation, not a religion. They don't strap bombs to their children or use their women as shields. They defend their God given land in the name of Jesus and if you are not 100% for them, then you are not reading your bible as you should.

[sweetycakes]

Yeah.........why can't those darned Jews just shut up and stop whining........as though they had a RIGHT to self-defence, or something.

90 Qassam rockets in 48 hours? Is that it??

Is that what all the fuss is about?

Big Deal!

.......Sheeesh!!

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jan 17 2008, 11:46 PM)

Secondly, no one is advocating a position that says we are not supposed to love the Palestinians. The problem is that you are confusing issues.

No. I don't think I am. If you remember the whole reason for my concern...-

QUOTE (kari21 @ Jan 17 2008, 05:32 AM)

Israel needs to go in and stomp these cockroaches to death once and for all!

If you agree that was a hateful statement and should not have been said, we can end this discussion right now. Unless you wish to continue.

Yeah, we can continue. It has already been pointed out that the context Kari's remarks applied solely at the terrorists and not at the entire Palestinian people. She correctly asserted what needs to be done to stop the terrorist attacks and that includes killing terrorists.

kari's statement was spot on. There was nothing hateful about it. Like I said... People like you are silent when terrorists are murdering Jews. Where is your outrage when terrorists are launching rockets into Jewish neighborhoods? Where is your pontification on the teachings of Jesus when the terrorists shredding babies with pipe bombs, ambushing innocent Jewish families on deserted roads, or sneaking into Jewish villages in the West Bank and stabbing little babies and the elderly in their sleep? Where is your so-called "concern" when the terrorists engage in bus bombings in Jewish cities in Isdrael, or blow up Jewish women and children on playgrounds or in supermarkets?

Seems as long as iti s just the terrorists who are "stomping" the Jews, people like you are content to be silent and sit in moral indifference. Stick up for Jews or strike back at the terrorists and suddenly you find your "concern" and outrage. I see how little Jewish blood is worth to you.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jan 17 2008, 11:46 PM)

How is defending yourself against terrorists and neutralizing a terrorist threat contrary to what Jesus taught?

Well, for one thing, you are killing them.

So as long long as its just the terrorists doing the killing and Jews doing the dying you are okay with that.

The problem here is your selective one-sided application of what Jesus taught. Jesus did not teach anything against a nation defending itself or its citizenry. In fact Jesus Himself will be doing quite a bit of killing, Himself, in the near future.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jan 17 2008, 11:46 PM)

The mistake you are making is in your application. Jesus was not addressing acts of war and terrorism. You are making an unwarranted and fallacious application. There is no way a reasonable person can compare dealing with a personal conflict and responding to an unprovoked act of barbaric agression like terrorism that seeks strike purposefully and indiscriminately at the most innocent and vulnerable members of Israeli/Jewish society or ANY given society, for that matter.

Thats actually not what I'm saying. You skipped the part about how when Jesus told us to love our neighbors,how that doesn't apply to interaction with people beyond our borders (which is btw, a purely human invention)

I know that is not what you are saying that is why you are wrong.

You are applying a fallicious notion that Jesus remarks are completely against ANY kind of "violent" actions and that is simply not true.

The the context can ONLY apply to personal interactions because that is the imagery that Jesus employs. Jesus talked about being slapped on the cheek and turning the other cheek. Slapping someone on the cheek, in Jesus' day was a personal insult. It was an act of disrespect and was often done in public to humiliate the other person. Jesus says that when are cursed, defamed, slandered, etc. We are not do the same thing in return. That is the context of that passage from the Sermon on the Mount.

Having said, that Jesus was NOT talking about the issue of self-defense where the lives of your family is in danger, or your own life is in danger. Jesus did not teach one thing against a nation's government having the right to defend its citizenry. In fact, God gave Israel a lot of victories in war and the New Testament does not repudiate or criticize Israel's victories in battle. In fact, end time Bible prophecies show us that God will continue winning victory after victory destroying the armies that war against Israel. So if God was against it, you have a lot of explaining why God in the years to come would kill Israel's enemies IF killing Israel's enemies goes against the teachings of Jesus.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jan 17 2008, 11:46 PM)

The Bible teaches that we are to walk in love, but we also told to uphold justice as well. Confronting an eliminating a terrorist threat falls under the category of seeking justice for those who are oppressed by terrorism. To deny that justice and to claim that destorying a terrorist threat, which means killing terrorists is proper, you do nothing but enbolden the terrorists and you also dehumanize the victims.

When you kill someone who has not been reborn, your are condemning them to hell, because you are taking away a chance for them to discover the truth of Jesus. Now do you really want guilt on you when you yourself are judged? For a Christian, death should be welcomed if it is the true will of God, and if that means laying your life so another may live, apparently, there is no higher gift to give to another person.

That is just a bogus argument. Like I said, what you are doing, is placing the welfare of the oppressor over the rights of the victims. Your argument is not even a biblical one. God, Himself, in the person of Jesus Christ will set about killing all kinds of people when He returns to save Israel from her enemies. Do you think that you operate from a higher moral standard than He does?

The Bible does not hold me responsible for anyone going to hell. Nowhere does the Bible teach that if someone were to die at my hand either due to battle, self-defense or even on accident, and they were not a Christian that I will be accountable to God for their fate. That is just a very lame attempt at emotional manipulation.

Once again, we are to love our neighbors, but we are to also seek justice for the oppressed, and neutralizing terrorists which includes killing them is just and rightesous. It may not be right in your perverted moral sensitivities, but it is justice nonetheless. You will never convince me otherwise.

I can guarantee you that if I were married and someone tried bring any harm to family, he would not see the dawn of the next day. It would be a mistake he would regret the remaining 15 seconds of his life.

[kari21]

50???

For any other nation, this is a blatant act of war!

Israel needs to go in and stomp these cockroaches to death once and for all!

I can't believe you said that. Thats what the extremist Hutu called the Tutsi's before they slaughtered 800,000 of them in the Rwandan genocide. Very Christ-like indeed. I hope you weren't serious.

Like Shiloh said, I meant the terrorists, not the Palestinian people as a whole. And let me say that I am shocked that you would allow harm to come to your family and not life a finger to protect them!

If you would just stand by and let that happen to the ones you love, you have bigger problems than the ones addressed here.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (nebula @ Jan 17 2008, 10:25 PM)

Well, if you want to believe Jesus' words mean you should let the street gang break into your house, shatter and steal your belongings, murder your son and rape your daughter without lifting a finger to stop them . . . that's your problem.

No its not my problem. Its theirs.

And I know, it's hard to say that for other people, being my son or my daughter, but I truly believe that God will judge the street gang accordingly on their day of judgment. I believe I will also be judged on whether I showed them to the truth and the light of Jesus Christ. And believe me, no one is beyond that.

Well, as eric pointed out, you are a pacifist apparently, and pacifism tries to masqurade as a Christian teaching, when it is in fact, opposed to everything the Bible teaches. It is particularly opposed to Paul's statement that man who does not look after the needs of his family is worse than an infedel. A real Man is to provide food, clothing shelter, education, medical care AND protection to his family. If you would allow someone to harm or even murder your own family you are worse than an infidel and are not following biblical Christianity. Any man that would allow criminals to harm or kill his wife and babies is not much a man and does not even deserve to have a family.

[sweetycakes]

Well, if you want to believe Jesus' words mean you should let the street gang break into your house, shatter and steal your belongings, murder your son and rape your daughter without lifting a finger to stop them . . . that's your problem.

No its not my problem. Its theirs.

And I know, it's hard to say that for other people, being my son or my daughter, but I truly believe that God will judge the street gang accordingly on their day of judgment. I believe I will also be judged on whether I showed them to the truth and the light of Jesus Christ. And believe me, no one is beyond that.

I agree with Shiloh and Kari.

Could you really stand by and do nothing if your family was being attacked?

I don't think I could.....and I am the most pacifistic person I know.

But....much as I abhor violence....I would rather see violence meted out against evil perpetrators than an innocent person, such as a member of my innocent family.

Though I believe we are to turn the other cheek.......I believe this relates to 'personal' situations. I have 'turned the other cheek' on many occasions....in order to keep the peace.

But if I caught someone trying to hurt or kill my family, I'm afraid that I would explode with such fury that even my closest friends would fear to come near me for many years to come. I would think absolutely nothing of literally 'breaking the teeth' of such an aggressor....and I would use any means at my disposal to do so. I would even make them suffer, so that they would think twice before doing similar things to anybody else in the future.

For too long have the innocent suffered, while evil, brutal people walk away laughing.

.....I will calm down now......

Regarding Israel......why should the Israeli government not take lethal measures in order to protect it's citizens? That is what they are there for. That is what the average Israeli citizen demands and expects from it's government.

Israel is surrounded by enemies. They have had to fight, basically, for every hour of their existence. And this will only increase in the future, as I believe the Bible foretells.

The number and ferocity of enemies that Israel has to deal with will only increase. They will ultimately have to fight, in a bigger way than ever before, for their very existence.

But God says that He will fight for Israel.

......Or can you show me where I am wrong in this belief?

It is quite obvious that those who are against Israel in this world, are also against God. Quite Obvious!

If God is fighting for Israel....then I am on the side of Israel.

[nebula]

And I know, it's hard to say that for other people, being my son or my daughter, but I truly believe that God will judge the street gang accordingly on their day of judgment. I believe I will also be judged on whether I showed them to the truth and the light of Jesus Christ. And believe me, no one is beyond that.

Is it loving to your family to just stand by and let evil things happen to them?

If you are witness to a criminal act and have the means to stop it (in a way that uses force that could hurt the criminal), is it loving to the victim to not do what you can to stop the criminal?

Is it righteous to allow the guilty harm the innocent in the name of "peace and love"?

[nebula]

I have a great deal of respect for Jews and Muslims, they are our sister religions but need to be brought to the light.

I agree with Eric - they are not "our sister" religions.

Our faith is the fulfillment of the original Jewish faith. The Jews without Messiah Yeshua are lost sheep of the house of Israel, whom Jesus came to redeem. (We Gentiles are blessed to be granted access to this salvation.)

Islam is a false religion that worships a false God that sets itself up against Jesus. Islam demotes Jesus to a mere prophet. Islam does not teach that Jesus is the Son of God, the Savior of the world, who died as the Lamb of God for our sins and rose on the third day, who ascended to Heaven where He sits at the right hand of the Father. Islam does not teach that salvation depends on faith in Jesus. Rather, Islam exalts a man by the name of Muhammed, giving him second honor to Allah; that is idolatry by Christian standards.

[Ingelosi]

Ok guys, I can't sit down and write a lengthy article now cause I have to got to work in a bit, but I can say a few quick things that need to be cleared up.

1. Once again, please do not think that I am against Jewish people. I do have concern when Palestinians kill Israelis just as I have concern of the opposite. To illustrate this, I can say that I have been to a synagogue and they have let me touch their Torah scrolls, I was very grateful. I have also been to a Mosque during Friday Prayers, and they have let me sit in on their service, I was very grateful. I encourage every Christian to visit these places to understand where they are coming from.

The reason why it may seem that I am against Israel (though I'm not) is because you fail to acknowledge the innocent people on the other side who have died and I'm trying to expose that, while you have take great measure to expose the innocent people on the Israeli side.

2. Now, for the statement I made earlier that has upset some people. I said that if a street gang broke into my house, stole all my belongings, murdered my son and raped my daughter, what would I do. And I admit, I did not read that as carefully as I should have. What should have said was that I would do everything I could to make them see the error in their ways, by getting in their way whichever way I could. And like I have said earlier. It is perhaps the most risky thing we can do on earth, to judge another person, being my daughter or my son on their faith. What if they hadn't accepted Jesus? Would they go to hell? I don't know I am not the judge, only God can decide that.

And that is where I am coming from with all this "not fighting back" stuff. WE are become the judges our selfs. How can you not see that by killing someone you are condemning them to Hell?! Life on earth is not the err... " the final frontier", it is only the beginning. Wealth on earth means nothing to the riches in heaven! Since you are so confident that the Jews will be saved, why are we fighting over earthly borders? If they have been saved then land should mean very little to them. And if we are so sure that Terrorists are going to go to hell, then (in the words of Shane Claiborne) I would have to tear out half of the new testament for it was written by a converted Terrorist. So do you see what I am saying? It is not about national borders, or who killed who, that doesn't matter. It is that souls are being destroyed in Hell and we are responsible.