Crucifixion not that bad!

[Hunterpoet]

The spear pierced his spleen.

How do you figure?

The spleen sits left in the abdominal cavity. The Lord was pierced in the side, by some accounts the left side. The major vessel were not involved, this would have brought almost instantaneous death.

The Lord lost a fair amount of blood from the scourging, hench the thirst. His bones were not broken, so He was able to breath. Further loss of blood is from the spear wound. The physical cause of death had to be exsanquination.

The spleen holds a fair amount of blood, up to a liter.

For us His blood was shed.

[jackie d]

The spear pierced his spleen.

How do you figure?

The spleen sits left in the abdominal cavity. The Lord was pierced in the side, by some accounts the left side. The major vessel were not involved, this would have brought almost instantaneous death.

The Lord lost a fair amount of blood from the scourging, hench the thirst. His bones were not broken, so He was able to breath. Further loss of blood is from the spear wound. The physical cause of death had to be exsanquination.

The spleen holds a fair amount of blood, up to a liter.

For us His blood was shed.

"so He was able to breath"

I don't think we can be too sure of how well He could actually breath. When a person is dying many times their abdominal and chest cavities fill with fluids making it incredibly difficult to breath because the lungs are being crushed by the pressure of the fluids, often a person will 'drown' in these fluids. I don't agree that the spleen was pierced either. But if He did fill will serous or saline type of fluid because of the trauma of the beatings He took and then hanging there for hours it could be the explanation for the 'blood and water' that spilled from the piercing.

Exsanguination is a possibility, but He lived for 6 hours on that cross, so it would have had to have been a slow bleed, it is possible....but truthfully I believe that the 'blood and water' came from the explanation above.

[jackie d]

PLEASE DO NOT READ THE FOLLOWING ACCOUNT OF THE CRUCIFIXION IF YOU DO NOT WANT GRAFIC DETAILS FROM A MEDICAL POINT OF VIEW ...

Maybe this would have helped that poor deluded man to understand what Christ went through

thank you for sharing that. It tears at my heart. And explains much more than I ever imagined. I have watched many people die in the line of work I am in. I don't think I could have stood by and watched all those hours as Jesus suffocated to death.....(weeping emoticon here)

[Hunterpoet]

The spear pierced his spleen.

How do you figure?

The spleen sits left in the abdominal cavity. The Lord was pierced in the side, by some accounts the left side. The major vessel were not involved, this would have brought almost instantaneous death.

The Lord lost a fair amount of blood from the scourging, hench the thirst. His bones were not broken, so He was able to breath. Further loss of blood is from the spear wound. The physical cause of death had to be exsanquination.

The spleen holds a fair amount of blood, up to a liter.

For us His blood was shed.

"so He was able to breath"

I don't think we can be too sure of how well He could actually breath. When a person is dying many times their abdominal and chest cavities fill with fluids making it incredibly difficult to breath because the lungs are being crushed by the pressure of the fluids, often a person will 'drown' in these fluids. I don't agree that the spleen was pierced either. But if He did fill will serous or saline type of fluid because of the trauma of the beatings He took and then hanging there for hours it could be the explanation for the 'blood and water' that spilled from the piercing.

Exsanguination is a possibility, but He lived for 6 hours on that cross, so it would have had to have been a slow bleed, it is possible....but truthfully I believe that the 'blood and water' came from the explanation above.

Speaking requires the movement of air, also known as breathing. We know the Lord sopke while on the cross, well enough for those attending to hear Him. If the pleural cavity is filled with fluid or if the lung tissie itself is filled with fluid, the person will not be able to breath or talk very well, if at all.

People die from all different causes, some do in fact have excessive amounts of fluid present in the abdomin or lungs. A fair amount need be present in the abdomin to obstruct the movement of the diaphram. These situations are the result of pre-existing medical conditions, but can be present after trauma. Although with trauma, one would not expect to see serosanquinous fluid.

I can't remember exactly when the solider pierced our Lords side. Specifically the timing, and I did not comment on the amount of time before or after. And yes, it would have been a slow bleed, regardless of when the solider used his spear.

The important point is that the Lords bones were not broken as foretold. This was a very common and consistent practice during crucifiction for the reasons previoulsy stated.

And as we may not agree on these points. I think we do agree that the individual who thinks it "wasn't all that bad" is in a very sorry state of mind.

Grace and Peace

[jackie d]

The spear pierced his spleen.

How do you figure?

The spleen sits left in the abdominal cavity. The Lord was pierced in the side, by some accounts the left side. The major vessel were not involved, this would have brought almost instantaneous death.

The Lord lost a fair amount of blood from the scourging, hench the thirst. His bones were not broken, so He was able to breath. Further loss of blood is from the spear wound. The physical cause of death had to be exsanquination.

The spleen holds a fair amount of blood, up to a liter.

For us His blood was shed.

"so He was able to breath"

I don't think we can be too sure of how well He could actually breath. When a person is dying many times their abdominal and chest cavities fill with fluids making it incredibly difficult to breath because the lungs are being crushed by the pressure of the fluids, often a person will 'drown' in these fluids. I don't agree that the spleen was pierced either. But if He did fill will serous or saline type of fluid because of the trauma of the beatings He took and then hanging there for hours it could be the explanation for the 'blood and water' that spilled from the piercing.

Exsanguination is a possibility, but He lived for 6 hours on that cross, so it would have had to have been a slow bleed, it is possible....but truthfully I believe that the 'blood and water' came from the explanation above.

Speaking requires the movement of air, also known as breathing. We know the Lord sopke while on the cross, well enough for those attending to hear Him. If the pleural cavity is filled with fluid or if the lung tissie itself is filled with fluid, the person will not be able to breath or talk very well, if at all.

People die from all different causes, some do in fact have excessive amounts of fluid present in the abdomin or lungs. A fair amount need be present in the abdomin to obstruct the movement of the diaphram. These situations are the result of pre-existing medical conditions, but can be present after trauma. Although with trauma, one would not expect to see serosanquinous fluid.

I can't remember exactly when the solider pierced our Lords side. Specifically the timing, and I did not comment on the amount of time before or after. And yes, it would have been a slow bleed, regardless of when the solider used his spear.

The important point is that the Lords bones were not broken as foretold. This was a very common and consistent practice during crucifiction for the reasons previoulsy stated.

And as we may not agree on these points. I think we do agree that the individual who thinks it "wasn't all that bad" is in a very sorry state of mind.

Grace and Peace

I read ladypeartree's post on the research done surrounding the possibilities of what actually caused the death, he even includes explanation on how he was able to speak and the difficulty. And you are right, the person who wrote the article stating it wasn't that bad is in a sorry state of mind.

Bottom line, Christ died on the cross and it was excruciating and inhumane.

[Guest shiloh357]

Jesus did not die from anything that was done to him on cross or beforehand. Jesus died at the exact moment He wanted to die and not a moment too soon or too late. No one had the power to kill Jesus. If Jesus had wanted, He could have hung on the cross for 100 years and the Romans would not have been able to do anything about it.

Jesus's death was a sacrifice. It was not a murder, martyr's death or execution. Jesus was in complete control of the events that pertaining to His death.

Jesus excersized personal power over death and he "gave up His spirit." It was something Jesus did consciously and purposefully.

[jackie d]

Jesus did not die from anything that was done to him on cross or beforehand. Jesus died at the exact moment He wanted to die and not a moment too soon or too late. No one had the power to kill Jesus. If Jesus had wanted, He could have hung on the cross for 100 years and the Romans would not have been able to do anything about it.

Jesus's death was a sacrifice. It was not a murder, martyr's death or execution. Jesus was in complete control of the events that pertaining to His death.

Jesus excersized personal power over death and he "gave up His spirit." It was something Jesus did consciously and purposefully.

okay

I can't speak for anyone else here just discussing the article and the medical aspects of the death. And I don't think anyone was trying to take away the impact or the power of Christ's sacrifice or the fact that He was in complete control.

This discussion was really no different than the thread asking about Christ sweating like drops of blood. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with making a very clear and complete description of how He died and the cruel treatment of Him. Until just a couple of years ago all I had in my minds eye was a man, without mark or blood anywhere on His body execpt for a small little trickle of blood that ran down His forehead. A picture that man had created completely minimizing what He really went through.

Perhaps if people got a better picture in their minds of what He REALLY went through, His sacrifice of His life for them would have a greater impact. Why continue a fairy tail picture of what our Savior allowed to happen to Him? A great example of that is how my 11 yr old daughter viewed His death compared to how she views it since I have explained to her what He actually did go through and what He must have looked like brutalized, bleeding and suffocating on that cross for hours before He finally spoke "it is finished".....

[Guest shiloh357]

I can't speak for anyone else here just discussing the article and the medical aspects of the death. And I don't think anyone was trying to take away the impact or the power of Christ's sacrifice or the fact that He was in complete control.

FYI, I didn't say anyone was taking away from the impact of Christ's death. I was simply making a statement of fact.

And I see absolutely nothing wrong with making a very clear and complete description of how He died and the cruel treatment of Him.

Good, 'cause I didn't say there was anything wrong with that.

No need to assign motives to me that I did not communictate.

[Guest shiloh357]

The spleen sits left in the abdominal cavity. The Lord was pierced in the side, by some accounts the left side. The major vessel were not involved, this would have brought almost instantaneous death.

Jesus was already dead when his side was pierced by the Roman Soldier's spear.

[nebula]

The spleen sits left in the abdominal cavity. The Lord was pierced in the side, by some accounts the left side. The major vessel were not involved, this would have brought almost instantaneous death.

Jesus was already dead when his side was pierced by the Roman Soldier's spear.

Yeah - I was thinking the same thing.

And besides the spleen is covered by the rib cage, so how would the soldier have pierced it?