Civil Unions

[Neopatriarch]

Hello list,

The thread on homosexual friends has sparked me to ask what everyone thinks about civil unions.

I think most Christians will recognize that same-sex marriage and homosexuality are morally wrong. This much is a no-brainer. But what about civil unions? Some friends of mine have said they would be willing to get civil unions just for economic reasons, forget about homosexuality and same-sex marriage. Are civil unions okay?

Also, although we recognize that homosexuality is immoral, should there be a law against it since some people here say we are no longer under the law? Are far as I can tell, there is no civil legislation against homosexuality in the NT. In the OT we have Lev 18:22, but, if we are no longer under the law, the state would have no obligation to enforce it. So why not civil unions?

-Neopatriarch

[Smalcald]

I am against civil unions not because of the gay issue but because of the many non-gay's who would use it as an excuse to not marry yet get some benefits of marriage. I think it would further weaken the importance and cultural stability of true lifelong marriage and hurt children in these "quasi" families with parents who are playing at real marriage. I mean what would you say to your kids?

[Neopatriarch]

I am against civil unions not because of the gay issue but because of the many non-gay's who would use it as an excuse to not marry yet get some benefits of marriage. I think it would further weaken the importance and cultural stability of true lifelong marriage and hurt children in these "quasi" families with parents who are playing at real marriage. I mean what would you say to your kids?

[Neopatriarch]

One problem I have with civil unions, in addition to the fact that I don't believe homosexuality should be endorsed or legitimized by the government, is that it is limited to only gay couples.

I didn't know it was limited to only gay couples. It seems you could have a civil union apart from any considerations of sex. At least, I could see that being argued for by some.

-Neopatriarch

[EricH]

Since I believe that unbelievers should be married, and that it would be meaningless to ask them to perform the ceremony before God, I don't have an issue with a civil ceremony. However, I do not think that this should be open to homosexual unions

[Ddavid from NC]

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Romans 1:18-27 KJV

Basically, says that God is going to let the culture go down its path of liberal (no standard) rationalization, and he going to let their sins to punish them. What the world calls live and let live and being open minded (freeethinkers) has a certain destiny. Civil unions is this culture following the pathway to destruction. And that is in the NT.

[Guest man]

How do civil unions differ in the eyes of God from a couple getting married in a courthouse by a judge who might be an atheist?

[Marnie]

Civil unions are nothing more than "gay marriage" under another name. Marriage benefits should only be reserved for traditionally married couples. I do not even think that common law heterosexual couples should be entitled to marriage benefits.

First, let me say that I am absolutely opposed to gay marriages, gay lifestyles, etc. I am homophobic to the core.

But, civil unions don't bother me in the least; since I can't see how they will possibly affect me in any way. Tax laws, and other laws, are already biased against single people in favor of married couples, even more so couples with children. To me, if fairness is an issue, that hardly seems fair. Having kids and/or being married should not entitle anybody to special benefits unless those benefits can be made available to everybody.

[Smalcald]

But stable traditional marriage has multiple societal benefits; marriage itself in a society has numerous externalities which benefit society as a whole. Compare the cost of raising children in a married household to the cost of society doing it in some institution just in a very extreme example. Every society needs children or it will die at a very basic level without children you don

[Marnie]

I don't disagree with your position on marriage; it was excellently written. However, I can't see how a civil union threatens marriage in any way. PYou are associating the notion of civil union with a homosexual relationship, which is repugnant to me as it is to you. However, a civil union may apply to any kind of partnership, ie., two sisters, a brother and a sister, two neighbors, etc. for non-sexual purposes, just as business partners enter into agreements for tax benefits, insurance breaks, etc.

As I stated previously, married people get breaks not available to single people, and couples with children get even more breaks. That, to me, is grossly unfair to all the single people out there. And with new privacy laws, civil unions might make caring for an aged father/step parent, family member or good friend easier.