Brood of Vipers

[EricH]

The point I am trying to make is the comparison of Scripture, with regard to "brood of vipers", and discussing what it is talking about.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Help me understand a little bit. What is your conclusion?

[tsth]

I have many conclusions on the matter, most of which were contained in the previous posts. I agree.

I also would add that the "eggs" mentioned, are those of "false" converts, who like the ones that bore them, do not understand (in heart) what it means to follow Jesus and to have Him be Lord and Savior of their lives. For a nation supposedly filled with people, who claim to "be Christian", yet, as a whole it is well described as our depraved condition is exposed:

9 So justice is far from us, and righteousness does not reach us. We look for light, but all is darkness; for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows. 10 Like the blind we grope along the wall, feeling our way like men without eyes. At midday we stumble as if it were twilight; among the strong, we are like the dead. 11 We all growl like bears; we moan mournfully like doves. We look for justice, but find none; for deliverance, but it is far away. 12 For our offenses are many in your sight, and our sins testify against us. Our offenses are ever with us, and we acknowledge our iniquities: 13 rebellion and treachery against the Lord, turning our backs on our God, fomenting oppression and revolt, uttering lies our hearts have conceived. 14 So justice is driven back, and righteousness stands at a distance; truth has stumbled in the streets, honesty cannot enter. 15 Truth is nowhere to be found, and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.

This is what is born out of a brood of vipers.........there is no "newness" to be found, because there are still hordes, walking in darkness, claiming to be "of light".

And I think it's time we acknowledge it, and repent.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Grace to you,

I would like to add that if anything, God, Jesus Christ was willing to hang out and even preach to the victims of this Hypocrisy. He was willing to receive them and readily forgave them. He spoke openly about them in the cry out to the poor, the meek, the humble, and the contrite. Inviting them to the Feast.

Why do you suppose that was?

I think I know but I want your thoughts. There may be several reasons. However, as always God has reserved Himself a remnant and some who call themselves believers are not truly believers. The thing is though, that those who are the True believers aren't too consumed with worry over who is and isn't. Rather like Zacharias and Elisabeth, Anna the Prophetess, and many others they are simply pressing forward and awaiting the arrival of the Promised Blessing. In our age though, I think it has more to do with knowing the times and the seasons and understanding that the Churches focus has always been the imminent return of our Lord.

Peace,

Dave

I believe that it is also answered in Isaiah 59. They were willing to repent and acknowledge their sin and turn from it. The Pharisee and Saducees however, and much of the church of that day, was not.

Matthew 21:32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

The one who was to "prepare the way" of the Lord, came and spoke and taught of "righteousness" and yet, the ones that the Pharisees and Saducees looked down upon, were willing to consider the message, and repent. That was the difference. But, for anyone who is not willing, they are in the same boat as the Pharisees and Saducees.

I also think of the passages within Ezekiel, with regard to the flocks, that were mistreated by the shepherds....many were cast out, much like the parents in the NT story, who were afraid to give glory to the Lord, in saying He must have given their son sight. They were afraid that they would be cast out of the congregation. Fear of man, and losing social status, rather than believing in Jesus?

In His Love,

Suzanne

Dear Dave,

Was that not what you expected for an answer? I'd like to hear your comments as well brother.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[woden]

So in a modern context, setting aside the ancient one for now, who would be the brood of vipers today or don't they exist in today multi-faith society?

Take a look at your TV on sunday morning.

Sorry, no can do. Haven't had TV for since before Hurricane Katrina, have I missed much?

[Pilgrim7]

Jesus was not a Pharisee, he was not a part of the Jewish establishment at all. He was a carpenter. He did not receive any of the training in the Jewish schools required to be a Pharisee. He was taught by God Himself, not by man.

John 7:14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.

7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How does this man know letters, having never learned?

7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

It is dangerous to assume things just because He taught in in the synagogues and temple. He was called 'Rabbi' because he taught the people, not because He had the 'official title' of 'Rabbi'. He was a 'teacher come from God', trained and schooled by God and not trained by man.

God Bless,

Dennis

[tsth]

Dear Brother Dave,

I also wanted to add that the remedy has always been the same in regard to the adders, the brood of the adders, and their teachings:

Isaiah 59:20 "The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins," declares the Lord. 21 "As for me, this is my covenant with them," says the Lord. "My Spirit, who is on you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouths of your children, or from the mouths of their descendants from this time on and forever," says the Lord.

When the people begin to turn from the teachings/doctrines of Men (repent), and instead pursue the righteousness of Christ, thru His Word, then they will be redeemed. When they forsake their own imaginations/ideas of WHO God IS, and go back to THE SOURCE/THE WORD, then they will be healed.

Isaiah 65:2 I have stretched out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in a way that is not good, According to their own thoughts;

Isaiah 66:4 So will I choose their delusions, And bring their fears on them; Because, when I called, no one answered, When I spoke they did not hear; But they did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight."

5 Hear the word of the Lord, You who tremble at His word: "Your brethren who hated you, Who cast you out for My name's sake, said, 'Let the Lord be glorified, That we may see your joy.' But they shall be ashamed." 6 The sound of noise from the city! A voice from the temple! The voice of the Lord, Who fully repays His enemies! 7 "Before she was in labor, she gave birth; Before her pain came, She delivered a male child. 8 Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[EricH]

Yes, but what we miss is that Jesus tells the people:

Matthew 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

From the Scriptures, we know that the Pharisees are lovers of pleasures, egotistical, like the seats of honor, love money, etc. They do not understand their function and role. They have lost their way and gone off the path, just as their fathers did, who persecuted the prophets.

And by the way, have you ever studied what the passages of Matt. 23:16-21, mean?

In His Love,

Suzanne

Your interpretation has an issue. if you believe Jesus was really telling them to obey the teaching of the Pharisees, you need to reconcile that with this:

Then Jesus told them, "Watch out and beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."... Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the yeast in bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Matthew 16:5,12 HCSB

Essentially you have Jesus saying 2 different things (according to your interpretation). We are to beware of their teaching, yet obey it.

[tsth]

Yes, but what we miss is that Jesus tells the people:

Matthew 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

From the Scriptures, we know that the Pharisees are lovers of pleasures, egotistical, like the seats of honor, love money, etc. They do not understand their function and role. They have lost their way and gone off the path, just as their fathers did, who persecuted the prophets.

And by the way, have you ever studied what the passages of Matt. 23:16-21, mean?

In His Love,

Suzanne

Your interpretation has an issue. if you believe Jesus was really telling them to obey the teaching of the Pharisees, you need to reconcile that with this:

Then Jesus told them, "Watch out and beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."... Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the yeast in bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Matthew 16:5,12 HCSB

Essentially you have Jesus saying 2 different things (according to your interpretation). We are to beware of their teaching, yet obey it.

No, the issue of yeast of the Pharisees, has been clarified already in this thread, but I'll repost it.

Luke 12:1 Meanwhile, when a crowd of many thousands had gathered, so that they were trampling on one another, Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy has ALWAYS meant, saying/teaching one thing, and practicing another.

Root meaning of hypocrisy:

to take up another's statements in reference to what one has decided for one's self

to reply, answer

to make answer (speak) on the stage

to impersonate anyone, play a part

to simulate, feign, pretend

In His Love,

Suzanne

[EricH]

In order to understand Matthew 23 correctly we need to look back on how it is set up in Matthew 22

While the Pharisees were together, Jesus questioned them, "What do you think about the Messiah? Whose Son is He?" "David's," they told Him. He asked them, "How is it then that David, inspired by the Spirit, calls Him 'Lord': The Lord declared to my Lord, 'Sit at My right hand until I put Your enemies under Your feet'? "If David calls Him 'Lord,' how then can the Messiah be his Son" No one was able to answer Him at all, and from that day no one dared to question Him any more.

Matthew 22:41-46 HCSB

The main problem the Pharisees had was that they refused to enter the kingdom through faith in the Messiah. They are hypocrites because they claim to teach God's way, but refuse to enter by the way. They trust in their own traditions which are frequently at odds with scripture (23:16-22). So in essence they have created a series of commands that are in opposition to scipture which they claim will lead people to God. They have rejected the true way to God and thus keep others out who follow them.

This passage is not a text we should use to condemn others around us who don't live like we think they should. It is a statement about those who create a gospel that does not include Jesus as the messiah, but obeying other commands

[EricH]

Yes, but what we miss is that Jesus tells the people:

Matthew 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

From the Scriptures, we know that the Pharisees are lovers of pleasures, egotistical, like the seats of honor, love money, etc. They do not understand their function and role. They have lost their way and gone off the path, just as their fathers did, who persecuted the prophets.

And by the way, have you ever studied what the passages of Matt. 23:16-21, mean?

In His Love,

Suzanne

Your interpretation has an issue. if you believe Jesus was really telling them to obey the teaching of the Pharisees, you need to reconcile that with this:

Then Jesus told them, "Watch out and beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."... Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the yeast in bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Matthew 16:5,12 HCSB

Essentially you have Jesus saying 2 different things (according to your interpretation). We are to beware of their teaching, yet obey it.

No, the issue of yeast of the Pharisees, has been clarified already in this thread, but I'll repost it.

Luke 12:1 Meanwhile, when a crowd of many thousands had gathered, so that they were trampling on one another, Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy has ALWAYS meant, saying/teaching one thing, and practicing another.

Root meaning of hypocrisy:

to take up another's statements in reference to what one has decided for one's self

to reply, answer

to make answer (speak) on the stage

to impersonate anyone, play a part

to simulate, feign, pretend

In His Love,

Suzanne

You really have not responded to the issue I raised here. Your interpretation of matthew 23:3 has an issue because it contradicts another thing Jesus said in Matthew (that we are to avoid their teachings). All you have done here is restate your position. Please interact with the contradiction