Brood of Vipers

[tsth]

Yes, I do understand that, and agree.

That is why I have stated in a couple of posts, that the remedy is "repentance" because as mentioned that is what the rest of Isaiah 59 gives as the remedy as well.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[patricia1]

oh my goodness...Island rose is here...I missed you.... how r you?

[IslandRose]

just reading along.....

[EricH]

I don't disagree Eric, that IS in fact what the passages I have posted are pointing out. That we cannot justify ourselves and our iniquities by following the doctrines of men, rather than the Word of God, which is the instruction of righteousness thru Christ Jesus, which I have mentioned previously. That is why the harlots and tax collectors were entering the kingdom before the Pharisees, because they received the preparation of the coming of the Lord, because they received the instructions on righteousness, whereas the leaders/teachers, were offended by it, and were desiring to continue to walk in iniquity of the heart.

So, what is it that you are bothered by? By your above post, you shouldn't be offended by this thread?

In His Love,

Suzanne

Help me understand what you mean by the "instruction of righteousness" through Jesus. What is it and how does it apply to salvation?

I don't think you really want to hear it, but I'll try.

Do you know the purpose of John the Baptist? (You need to start there.) It was written about in the Scriptures. Could you post it?

In His Love,

Suzanne

Sue, it would really help if you would just answer the question directly. Thanks so much. I would also appreciate if you could answer my question regarding the contradiction in your position I pointed out.

[EricH]

Yes, but what we miss is that Jesus tells the people:

From the Scriptures, we know that the Pharisees are lovers of pleasures, egotistical, like the seats of honor, love money, etc. They do not understand their function and role. They have lost their way and gone off the path, just as their fathers did, who persecuted the prophets.

And by the way, have you ever studied what the passages of Matt. 23:16-21, mean?

In His Love,

Suzanne

Your interpretation has an issue. if you believe Jesus was really telling them to obey the teaching of the Pharisees, you need to reconcile that with this:

Then Jesus told them, "Watch out and beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."... Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the yeast in bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Matthew 16:5,12 HCSB

Essentially you have Jesus saying 2 different things (according to your interpretation). We are to beware of their teaching, yet obey it.

No, the issue of yeast of the Pharisees, has been clarified already in this thread, but I'll repost it.

Luke 12:1 Meanwhile, when a crowd of many thousands had gathered, so that they were trampling on one another, Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy has ALWAYS meant, saying/teaching one thing, and practicing another.

Root meaning of hypocrisy:

to take up another's statements in reference to what one has decided for one's self

to reply, answer

to make answer (speak) on the stage

to impersonate anyone, play a part

to simulate, feign, pretend

In His Love,

Suzanne

You really have not responded to the issue I raised here. Your interpretation of matthew 23:3 has an issue because it contradicts another thing Jesus said in Matthew (that we are to avoid their teachings). All you have done here is restate your position. Please interact with the contradiction

I think you do not agree with the hypocrisy statement, that was made by "Jesus", NOT ME.

Of course I'm restating my positition, it was Jesus' position as well.

And I'll restate it again:

Luke 12:1 Meanwhile, when a crowd of many thousands had gathered, so that they were trampling on one another, Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

This will not change, as it was written that way.

And it is still applicable, even today.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Again, I would really appreciate if you would interact with the contradiction I have pointed out.

If it is anything I am inclined to believe that the verse in Matthew 23:3 'So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach' has to do with living in the fruits of the spirit and against you the'll be no law. This instructs us to be duely crucified in our behaviour where we obey authorities even when there is need to contest decisions, that we do so lawfully and in the correct conduct and procedure.

The other scripture saying: "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. speaks of the fact that as the yeast is not really of the lump so ought we to be on our guard that we are not fooled by their words of seeming agreement. this is something like the viper's nature that is able to feign agreement though prove to be something else thereafter.

But that is not what the text says. The text itself identifies the leaven as the teaching of the pharisees.

Then Jesus told them, "Watch out and beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."... Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the yeast in bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Matthew 16:5,12 HCSB

[tsth]

Dear EricH,

I'm sorry, but I cannot answer you anymore, as you are not satisfied thus far....and you and I both know that you will not be, with anything I respond.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tah]

I am a "bystander" and I am not understanding the issue that is in conflict here..

I understand that although the Pharisees and Sadducee's did not walk in truth they spoke ..

it is still truth which we should still walk in whether they did or not..

That is all I get from this whole thing..

What am I missing.. keep it really simple for me...

I don't have your extensive learned background in the Scripture..

How exactly is this in conflict?

[tsth]

Dear tah,

I'm afraid that somehow the whole thing got off-track.

You are, however, understanding it all correctly. I was just making the comparison of the Isaiah 59 passages regarding the "eggs of vipers", and the Pharisees (brood of vipers), and fast-forwarding to today. It is not new. Nothing new under the sun. We are in the same condition, as a whole, in this nation, with regard to the church.

Thanks for your comment, though. To be honest, I didn't think it was making much sense either, the further it went.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[jackie d]

First of all, I want to say that only Jesus is the discerner of the hearts of men!

Some pharisees and saducees, any religious leader anywhere and the operative word here is 'Religious' has the same opportunity for salvation as the rest of us. Jesus knew the hearts of men when He was here and still knows them.

Saul was sincere in his quest to do the right thing in the sight of God and therefore killed many of Gods servants.. I believe the quest, zeal although wrong, his intial want was to please God.

In knowing this, God revealed himself to him. He became Paul!

Why did God not save him prior to christian slaughter?! God has his reasons and I have my own opinion of that.

The woman who needed healing sitting in the synogouge, She was not a christian...Jesus knew her heart although bound by laws that stunted her knowledge ...her Love for God was sincere.

Let us look at vipers. Vipers besides being venomous as we all know, vary. They can give live birth and lay eggs. Giving birth to as many as 25 at a time. They also ambush their prey.

Their venom can be neurotoxic and also may not be. But either way they also have venom to'break down' human tissue. The amount of venom depends on the size of the snake. I find that interesting!

Their 'jaws' can open to a '180 degree angle' seemingly to seperate but will always go back into place, jaws can accommadate large animals. They also will eat other snakes. Some have fangs in the front and some in the rear. You cannot see the fangs until they are ready to strike. The fangs fold inward and stay 'hidden'

Sound like some people I have run into. Yet the pharesaical person can be corrected and , the spirit removed and become gentle as a dove.

I never underestimate the power of God to change anyone.

while there is breath there is HOPE!

[tah]

ok..thanks..

sometimes we just cannot connect in our thoughts with others.... life is like that..