Atheists

[caughtinside]

I try to be openminded about things. I just see the 'heard-hearted' thing being inescapably subjective. John is hard-hearted because he doesn't believe what Sue believes, and vice-versa, Stan is hard-hearted because he accepts the theory of evolution, Tina is hard-hearted because she doesn't believe it--just depends on who you ask.

[Richard_yaash]

I try to be openminded about things. I just see the 'hard-hearted' thing being inescapably subjective. John is hard-hearted because he doesn't believe what Sue believes, and vice-versa, Stan is hard-hearted because he accepts the theory of evolution, Tina is hard-hearted because she doesn't believe it--just depends on who you ask.

Well said.

May you always be able to maintain an openmind and may you find that which you seek.

[stan4257]

I try to be openminded about things. I just see the 'heard-hearted' thing being inescapably subjective. John is hard-hearted because he doesn't believe what Sue believes, and vice-versa, Stan is hard-hearted because he accepts the theory of evolution, Tina is hard-hearted because she doesn't believe it--just depends on who you ask.

Nothing worthwhile depends on anything except the truth that God is love, and to the extent that love is demonstrated on these posts so also to that extent is God revealed.

Being open-minded is fine for those who are searching for truth, and I, in love, respect your right to do that, of course, but unless your open-mind leads you to the truth that God is love then your search for truth will fail.

So I am pleased that you claim to be 'open-minded' (having or showing a mind open to new ideas- unprejudiced) for that is a great start.

May the love of God meet you and welcome you as you search with an open mind for the truth that God is love.

You will be a very welcome partner with those others here who also believe that God is love.

[caughtinside]

Thanks, Richard.

Stan, how are things down under? I respect your views and appreciate your sincerity. And despite whatever differences we might have, I agree that God is Love!

It seems we've veered from hard/soft-hearted to open/closed-minded...I suppose there may be some overlap but I wanna say again I liked your likening the former to how much love a person has for others.

As for the latter, one way I see open-mindedness is in the ability (willingness?) to recognize that others with different views on things, especially where it comes to worldviews, can be as sincere and honest with their beliefs as I am with mine. Sometimes belief is used as a litmus test for a person's character, though I'm glad that it doesn't always come down to that!

happy weekend (mine is just wrapping up.)

[artsylady]

When someone labels themselves as atheist, I do believe they are hard-hearted. In fact, it's find it hard for me to even respect this term. (Although the Bible teaches we are supposed to be respectful) I do have respect for the agnostic viewpoint, but when you say you know that there is no God, it seems arrogant. In order to know there is no God, you would have to BE a god, with all of the widsom of the ages. There are simply too many mysteries of the universe, too many unanswered questions to be able to simply discount a higher being. Most atheists had been Christians and I believe the Holy Spirit is still there somehow, and they feel the need to fight God all of their lives. If they can win on some point, they feel more justified in the faith. If we win on points, they can easily dismiss it. After months of debate, an atheist SHOULD be considering that Christianity does, in the very leasts, have some good points, but the average atheist will continue in his thinking that Christianity is a 'fairy tale' with no merit whatsoever. They liken it to a fairy tale, yet fight it all of their lives, with a vengeance actually. This is hard-hearteness.

There are varying degrees of it.

[artsylady]

I try to be openminded about things. I just see the 'heard-hearted' thing being inescapably subjective. John is hard-hearted because he doesn't believe what Sue believes, and vice-versa, Stan is hard-hearted because he accepts the theory of evolution, Tina is hard-hearted because she doesn't believe it--just depends on who you ask.

Right and I agree.

And I think if one is hard-hearted toward God, or the possiblity of God, he'll automatically figure out creative ways to disagree with the believer, to the point of being ridiculous, when in reality, the more suitable option would be agreeing with the believer or at the very least, chalking it up with a question mark.

[caughtinside]

Well, I suppose for most everyone, including agnostics, the chips eventually have to fall somewhere. In my experience, people who say, "There is no God" are using inductive reasoning: based on their rejection of the religions they're familiar with, they then conclude that the very idea of God is a human construct. I find it fulfilling to happily permit my agnosticism to allow for the possibility of some 'greater beyond', but that's just me. Well not just me, but lots of folks.

Those who don't, those who make the positive atheist statement, well, for them that's where the chips have fallen. Is that necessarily hard-hearted toward God? I wouldn't say that, because from their perspective God is a myth--though yes I agree there's a lot of antipathy towards what they see as myth. If a person looks at the issue from a purely this-world standpoint, and they feel that the net effects of religion are negative, then that could explain their antipathy. If you are bothered by religion-prescribed female circumcision--to use one example--then you might see where they're coming from (though you needn't agree with them.)

Edited March 9, 2008 by caughtinside

[artsylady]

Well, I suppose for most everyone, including agnostics, the chips eventually have to fall somewhere.

Yes the chips do have to fall, but in the case of the atheist how can one logically say "While it is true that the 'unknowns' of the universe far outweight the 'knowns', but I still conclude that God does not exist".

In my experience, people who say, "There is no God" are using inductive reasoning: based on their rejection of the religions they're familiar with, they then conclude that the very idea of God is a human construct.

I agree with rejecting most religions. If you believe that Christianity is a human construct, please see the thread "A Massive Conspiracy Theory", right here. Most atheists disagree with certain scriptures of the Bible and feel that they can reject God because of it. Personally, I don't understand a lot of what God did. I can find some reasons that I think might be possible, but I'll never know fully, nor do i want a God that I can fully understand.

I find it fulfilling to happily permit my agnosticism to allow for the possibility of some 'greater beyond', but that's just me. Well not just me, but lots of folks.

That's the intelligent way to approach the subject.

Those who don't, those who make the positive atheist statement, well, for them that's where the chips have fallen. Is that necessarily hard-hearted toward God?

I would say that yes, it is hard hearted. They can give a million other reasons as to why they reject, but it's more about the condition of their hearts.

I wouldn't say that, because from their perspective God is a myth--though yes I agree there's a lot of antipathy towards what they see as myth. If a person looks at the issue from a purely this-world standpoint, and they feel that the net effects of religion are negative, then that could explain their antipathy

They choose to see only negative and don't look at positive. Christianity were the forerunners of hospitals, schools, missions, the first human rights laws, the abolition of slavery, the underground railroad, the REd Cross, the Salvation Army, World Vision and countless others like it, missions work, etc, etc, etc. Atheists point to the inquisition or so called Christians who bomb abortion clinics, knowing that this isn't even Christian-like behaviour, let alone Christ like. They choose a distorted view, because of the hardness of their hearts.

If you are bothered by religion-prescribed female circumcision--to use one example--then you might see where they're coming from (though you needn't agree with them.)

Yes I agree with rejection of this particular religion, not just because of this disguisting practice, but many others. I can't figure out why anyone would believe Mohammed to be true. Who was he? Some guy that came along 500 years after Christ and claimed to be a prophet and rewrote ancient scripture after having the hell scared out of him by an otherworldly being? Nothing foretelling his coming, contradictory teachings to Christ etc, etc. Plus a whole wack of other reasonings. I could go on and on here, and also have many reasons for the rejection of other religions. In my own search, I didn't really want to believe in the Christian God, but I did KNOW there was a God because He had made himself very real to me. And I knew it was important issue, because if there really was a hell, I did not want to be there. In the end, I embraced Christianity and ever since, my faith continues be strengthened the more I debate with atheists.

[caughtinside]

Hi artsylady,

It's strange that for some reason I don't find this thread if I go directly to the Apologetics folder--I can only find it if it has the most recent comment, or if I click the My Assistant link. Anyway....

Yes the chips do have to fall, but in the case of the atheist how can one logically say "While it is true that the 'unknowns' of the universe far outweight the 'knowns', but I still conclude that God does not exist".

Inductive reasoning I guess.

I agree with rejecting most religions. If you believe that Christianity is a human construct, please see the thread "A Massive Conspiracy Theory", right here.

This is the subjectivity I was referring to. When a person rejects a religion you don't personally accept, you agree with them. When they reject the religion you do accept, are they being hard-hearted?

That's the intelligent way to approach the subject.

Awwww Maybe "an" intelligent way.

Those who don't, those who make the positive atheist statement, well, for them that's where the chips have fallen. Is that necessarily hard-hearted toward God?

I would say that yes, it is hard hearted. They can give a million other reasons as to why they reject, but it's more about the condition of their hearts.

It looks like you're defining heard-hearted as "someone who doesn't believe in God." In which case, I suppose you're right.

They choose to see only negative and don't look at positive. Christianity were the forerunners of hospitals, schools, missions, the first human rights laws, the abolition of slavery, the underground railroad, the REd Cross, the Salvation Army, World Vision and countless others like it, missions work, etc, etc, etc. Atheists point to the inquisition or so called Christians who bomb abortion clinics, knowing that this isn't even Christian-like behaviour, let alone Christ like. They choose a distorted view, because of the hardness of their hearts.

Happily, lot's of non-believers acknowledge this.

Yes I agree with rejection of this particular religion, not just because of this disguisting practice, but many others. I can't figure out why anyone would believe Mohammed to be true. Who was he? Some guy that came along 500 years after Christ and claimed to be a prophet and rewrote ancient scripture after having the hell scared out of him by an otherworldly being? Nothing foretelling his coming, contradictory teachings to Christ etc, etc. Plus a whole wack of other reasonings. I could go on and on here, and also have many reasons for the rejection of other religions. In my own search, I didn't really want to believe in the Christian God, but I did KNOW there was a God because He had made himself very real to me. And I knew it was important issue, because if there really was a hell, I did not want to be there. In the end, I embraced Christianity and ever since, my faith continues be strengthened the more I debate with atheists.

Would you say you are hard-hearted towards the Gods of other religions?

[patricia1]

First of all..God does not need us...he wants us and we should want Him. I take offense to that statement...I have to say it...

second I never met a true atheist who belived in total NOTHING.

Even the fact that they believe God does not exist is a measure at one time they pondered and thought he existed.

Has anyone here ever heard of someone haveing a unteachable spirit?