How Can You Honestly Believe In God?

[Guest kitkat]

When God created the world, the world was perfect, man was perfect, but it became an imperfect, corrupt world when Adam and Eve fell into temptation. God warned Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of knowledge,Genesis 2:17, but they fell into temptation anyway, even after God told them not to. God intended for this world to be perfect, but after man fell into tempation, that plan failed. So instead of living in a perfect world because of sin, we have thorns, weeds, thistles, hunger and all kinds of evil and pestilences to live and deal with on this earth.

God didn't create any of us to send us to hell, but he did give us a free will to live our lives the way we choose to live them and for those who have never heard of God or Jesus, I don't think God will hold them responsible or accountable for what they don't know and send them to hell. It says in the Bible, To whom much is given, much is required. Those with Bible knowledge and the knowledge of the plan of salvation through Jesus Christ, will be held accountable to God for that and whether they accepted him or not and if they didn't accept Him, knowing they would be cast into hell then God will show them no mercy.

Our real adversary on this earth is the Devil himself. He once was one of God's greatest angels in heaven, but then he turned against God and wanted to be equal with God. When this happened, he was cast out of heaven by God and he landed on this earth. He is our REAL adversary. God loves us and isn't willing that any of us should perish, but have everlasting life. It is the devil that hates us and wants to see us cast into hell.

Kitkat

[eric]

Faithless, you are not the forst person to ask these questions and you wont be the last.

When my first daughter was born, she was born with cerebal palsy. My wife was a believer and I was not. I used to ask my wife where her precious God was when our baby was born and I blamed Him. Now 47 years later after a life of pain and frustration and getting around with a walking aid, she is one of the best witnesses for Christ I know and also has a twenty three year old christian son, who is married to a beautiful christian wife and all because she put Christ first in her life and read her bible daily and asked a lot of questions and remained obedient to Him.

Yes. you have a right to ask these questions, but I ask you to please listen to what these lovely people on this board have to say, because they have genuine feelings for you.

in Christ'

eric.

p.s. welcome to the board, BTW.

[Catsmeow]

Faithless:

First, welcome to the boards. Nobody here will "boo" you off (LOL!) We're glad you're here to ask these questions. They're good ones too.

I wrote you a lengthy PM because I can truly relate to what you're asking. It makes sense to me - I asked the same things too.

You're taking the first, important step...asking, "Why?" "How?"...Good!

That's the beginning that will lead to faith. There HAS to be more. And...there is.

We will gently do our best to guide and befriend you ...and answer your questions with patience and all gentleness.

You have plenty of people who will answer your questions. Check you PM's also. I sent you one and please...know that we understand since many of us were once where you are right now!

Welcome again!

[senerhu]

faithless

faithless,

God created perfection for all mankind, for His entire creation. We invited all this bad stuff by sinning against God and believing Satan. God basically cursed the creation because of us. But He also provided a way of eternal salvation and glory via Jesus Christ.

He is a loving God. He is also a just God. He cannot let sin go unpunished. But by His grace, he provided the perfect final solution.

We all sin to this day. Not one of us is pure. We have sin nature from the day we are born. Think about it! Does anyone ever have to teach a young child to steal? Do we have to teach them a coveting nature (jealously)? Just a couple of examples.

God is good, God is love - in its purest sense!

I pray that the Lord would touch your heart and fill you with wisdom and love.

In His Love,

John

What John says here is the Truth. Man being a sinner means that the evil you see in this world came about because of sin.

But God has a way of delivering YOU from that sin, just as he has John and me and many many others. All you have to do is try to understand. All you have to do is allow the Holy Spirit that GOD has put into you, whether you like or not, accept it or not or recognize it or not, to open you eyes and your heart to hear God's Word and what it means.

I pray that you do not become a pawn of sin, of satan, and loss your life....

senerhu

[Guest faithless]

sanctification:

God gave us a choice. And that same element in you to watch out for "number one" is the same element in every body who ever lived... That is, with the exception of Jesus Christ. He was perfect.

By choice, do you mean that we get to choose whether we accept Christ or reject him, or we have a choice to commit or refrain from committing sin? Either way, I don't think we have much of a choice in anything. The bible says the we must "choose" to accept God in order to receive eternal happiness. But is it really a choice? Whether or not we believe in God is a fundamental part of who we are, it's not a simple choice one makes.

If you were referring to choice when it comes to sinning, then that is not a choice we make either. Like many others have said, we sin the moment we are born. Choice has very little to do in the process.

Do you believe in sin?

No, I don't. When you see the world without an absolute code of morality derived from an ominpotent source, as I do, then the word "sin" as used by others loses all meaning.

godrulz:

God is not the only free will moral agent in the universe. The possibility of love and relationship inherently implies the possibility of hatred and selfishness.

Morality in the Christian context is derived from "God's word," which is the bible. Sinning is breaking the rules of morality. As such, if God exists, then his word is absolute and there is indeed a code of morality on an absolute scale. But without an omnipotent source, we are floating in a sea of moral relativity.

If you stop and think about it, why is non-marital sex a sin? Most Christians would say that it is because it goes against God's word, and since he is the source of moralilty, his word is absolute. But without God, morality loses all meaning.

Hollywood, the military, our selfish lives explain why people starve. We have the resources, but disobey God in loving our neighbour. We are culpable for the evil and suffering in the world. The alternative would be for God to be a Dictator and we mere subservient robots incapable of love or freedom.

Are we guilty, or is God that is guilty? Think about it: God is omnipotent, he could have created us any way he would have liked. He wants us to love each other and respect each other, and yet he creates beings that are selfish and full of hate and malice. Why? He can't blame us for our sins, he's the one that created us this way. He's the one that made us selfish, jealous, envyous, etc. How can he then turn back on us and expect us to hold in these urges when he was the one that created us this way? And how can he expect more from us when he himself has failed in creating us?

And since the final result (us) isn't what he planned for, then how can you claim that he is omnipotent, if he has obviously failed in his project?

The other factor we cannot overlook is the D-EVIL and demons. He comes to kill, rob, and destroy. Jesus Christ opposes evil and gives life abundant and eternal.

So is it the the devil, or humans, that are ultimately responsible for all this hate and sin? Most other people in this thread have said that it is humans who are ultimately evil and full of sin, yet you seem to allude to the fact that it is actually the devil that causes such hate in humans. If that is the case, then how can God hold us responsible for things that aren't our doing? And if God is omnipotent, then why can't he vanquish the devil, and evil in general?

Saved by Grace:

Maybe

[senerhu]

faithless

senerhu:

QUOTE 

But God has a way of delivering YOU from that sin, just as he has John and me and many many others. All you have to do is try to understand. All you have to do is allow the Holy Spirit that GOD has put into you, whether you like or not, accept it or not or recognize it or not, to open you eyes and your heart to hear God's Word and what it means. 

The problem with that kind of thinking, though, is that once you set yourself out to search for God, every little coincidence will be mistaken for a "sign" of God's existence. It's like if you're out witch hunting, every broom stick you find will serve as evidence. Once you're on path to "find God," every little thing that isn't ordinary that you would have never noticed before will serve as undeniable proof of His existence. You can convince yourself of many things if you look hard enough.

That answer is easy. There is no physical sign. It is a feeling, your conscience. Do I do this or not? Do I say this or not? Do I steal, kill, forge, lie, brag, become proud to not?

Those that are not saved say they fear the law, they fear our societies criminal system and this is what keeps them from doing these things.

Those that are saved fear God and His ultimate wrath. But more than this, those that are saved want to not do this things because of the love the have received from being saved. This doesn't mean that we aren't sinners. Everyone is, but God forgives those that ask Him, God will Bless those that Honor Him and God will grant eternal Life to those that accept Him....

[Guest faithless]

There is no physical sign. It is a feeling, your conscience.

In that case, it is even easier to trick yourself into believing. The mind is actually a very easy thing to fool, I learned this in psychology. Anyone who looks for something hard enough will eventually find what they are looking for, whether it actually exists or not. That's why people believe in UFOs and conspiracy theories, because once they get into that mindset, it's like a snowballing effect. It starts off small, like as a slight interest. Then the more you read about the subject the more you start to believe it, until finally you accept it unwaveringly. The same thing happens with religion. You start off just curious about Jesus and the bible, you meet a few people in church, then the more you listen to the preacher and the more you read the bible, the more you start to believe it, until finally you accept it as fact.

That's also why the hardest step for alcohlics is to realize that they have a drinking problem. The mind deceives itself into thinking that the person does not have a drinking problem because that is what it is trained to do.

[senerhu]

faithless

QUOTE 

There is no physical sign. It is a feeling, your conscience.

In that case, it is even easier to trick yourself into believing. The mind is actually a very easy thing to fool, I learned this in psychology. Anyone who looks for something hard enough will eventually find what they are looking for, whether it actually exists or not. That's why people believe in UFOs and conspiracy theories, because once they get into that mindset, it's like a snowballing effect. It starts off small, like as a slight interest. Then the more you read about the subject the more you start to believe it, until finally you accept it unwaveringly. The same thing happens with religion. You start off just curious about Jesus and the bible, you meet a few people in church, then the more you listen to the preacher and the more you read the bible, the more you start to believe it, until finally you accept it as fact.

That's also why the hardest step for alcohlics is to realize that they have a drinking problem. The mind deceives itself into thinking that the person does not have a drinking problem because that is what it is trained to do.

I may be over simplifying this so please excuse me, there are many here more learned and wise than I, but God is not asking you to make interpretations on everything that comes to your conscience. You really only need to ask one question and this is the only question that you have to make your decsision on.

When you say to Jesus, "Lord, I accept you as my savior" then Jesus will become your advocate before God.

But if you deny Jesus, then Jesus will deny you before God.

It is that simple. There is no hidden agenda, no signs, trails, tests, or puzzles to solve. Accepting Jesus means to accept His way, one of honesty, love, goodwill. Your mind should easily be able to discern these qualities frm the many that you fear may enter your mind.

And that is what I mean, you can fear society, which means you chooose to be a good citizen, or

you can fear God, accept Jesus, and choose to live a good life as a Christian and a citizen....

[godrulz]

Either God exists or He does not. We believe the evidence points to the existence of God. If He exists, then there are absolutes.

Sin is a wrong moral choice or lawlessness/selfishness. We cannot blame God nor the devil for the misuse of our free will. We alone are responsible/accountable. God and Satan can influence, but not coerce.

I disagree that we are born with a sin nature since sin is not a substance passed on from Adam (original sin). Sin is a wrong moral choice. If we are born innocent, as Adam and Lucifer once were, then we are responsible for sin. We all chose ultimately to live selfishly and in the flesh. The consequence is spiritual and physical death.

[Guest sanctification]

faithless,

Can I ask you this: what is it that you want from God? What is it you are looking for? While it ultimately may not take the shape of God in your mind, everybody is seeking something they do not already have. What do you seek?

If you are looking at the bible or Christianity and find sticky points, then how does this reflect your heart? Are you simply "faithless," and no matter how many issues might be addressed there will always be more unacceptable aspects to faith? Or are you ready to take a leap of faith, and simply have a few stumbling points left before you will feel comfortable?

You know, it all does not have to make sense in order for it to be right for your life. Why? Because maybe you will not be given understanding until after you have talked directly to God about it. And so while I may or may not be able to answer satisfactorily all your answers, I can tell you that it is very simple, and fast, to know whether the claims about Jesus are true. What I can extend to you in expressable terms are His promises. And you can take those promises and try putting your faith in them for just a moment and I assure you that if you want God, He will come. My assurance comes from knowing that I was once like you, and now I am a believer.

Take care,

Sanc