How Can You Honestly Believe In God?

[Guest LCPGUY]

Senerhu said...

For the first time in my life, Dr. Luke, I have experienced a taste of the sorrow God must feel for His lost sheep....

Amen and amen. Thanx Senerhu! :il:

In His Love,

John

[Adstar]

There is no perfect program. But there are perfect ideal programs. The flaw in your argument is that God is the imperfect programmer, and that God unintentionally created man with a flaw that could be exploited. The truth of the matter is that God created man intentionally with free will (Which is not a flaw, but a virtue) that could be exploited. But, unlike a computer, Adam had control over whether or not to chose taking the virus of sin himself.

Well said God man

All praise The Ancient Of Days

[rockswillcryout]

In my view of the universe, there is no God, no moral structure, no justice. No one is looking out for you, and no one cares what happens to you. All life is inherently worthless and without meaning. It's depressing, it makes me want to cry, it makes me want to kill myself. But at least in this vision I'm not a slave.

Ah...but you are a slave. You are a slave to hopelessness. It may not be the kind of slavery you envision for Christianity, but it's still slavery nonetheless. And I know you don't believe this, but you DO have a choice.

I know it's been said, but there is nothing that offers more freedom than Jesus Christ. Freedom from the despair and hopelessness of the world around us.

Galations 4: 2-7 says it well:

So also, when we were children, we were in slavery under the basic principles of the world. But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

Please know that we are glad you came, we are glad you are asking us these questions, and this is a place for you. There is nothing wrong with seeking the answer to questions millions of people have asked. You've been given a mind and you are using it. You are welcome here! Please know that.

[Catsmeow]

Ah...but you are a slave. You are a slave to hopelessness.

Man, if that isn't inspired....I don't know what is...Great post!

[WayneB]

no one cares what happens to you.

We do friend...or we wouldn't have taken the time to love you. Yes, that is what these saints of God are doing. They are loving you.

All life is inherently worthless and without meaning.

Would you be surprised to know that you aren't the only one who feels that way? Solomon, son of King David...one of the richest men who have ever lived said, "Meaningless! Meaningless! Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless." You can read all he has to say in Ecclesiastes, a book in the Old Testament of the Bible. He learned through his life experience that ALL things...wisdom, wealth, pleasures, toil...ALL these and more are meaningless without God.

I now realize that coming here was a mistake. It's not your fault, you guys were good, this place just isn't for people like me.

Just know this...God cares and He loves you. I appreciate your honesty and openess. Thank you for allowing us to share our faith with you and I pray that something one of us said spoke to your heart.

God Bless you faithless,

Wayne

[refugepsa91]

In my view of the universe, there is no God, no moral structure, no justice. No one is looking out for you, and no one cares what happens to you. All life is inherently worthless and without meaning. It's depressing, it makes me want to cry, it makes me want to kill myself. But at least in this vision I'm not a slave. I don't have to bow down in front of a master and pray for him, like a powerless slave. And that means everything to me, because while I may view my life as worthless, at least I'm not powerless. Like I've already said to catsmeow, If I ever find out that everything I stood for was wrong, I would rather commit suicide than worship like a slave. God can do what he wants to me in the after life, but I won't bow down to him in this life.

But hopefully I'll turn out to be right, and when I die I'll just remain a forgotten memory instead of being tortured for eternity.

I now realize that coming here was a mistake. It's not your fault, you guys were good, this place just isn't for people like me.

Take care,

faithless

I haven't posted here but I have been keeping up on this thread.

Faithless....I think all posters here care what happens to you...I know I do.

Life is not worthless...you are not worthless...with your topic here you have opened the door for the greatest love to be shown. Everyone who tried to answer your questions did it with the highest love.

I feel the only way not to be a slave is to be free with God, free to give, free to love those in need, free to feel, free to help, free to cry, free to laugh, without feeling embarrassed what others will think of you.

I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say that you will never be forgotten here. We will all think of you and pray for you. I just pray we hear from you again.

And this is just the place for people like you. You see we don't see you as "people" we wont clump you together as just a number. You will be just "YOU" here and will love you.

Love and Blessings,

Angel

[The Journey]

God-man:

Injustice is injustice, whether in the spiritual sense or the legal sense. So, what is injustice?

I'm still not sure what kind of answer you are looking for, but since I don't believe in any sort of spiritual force, the only sort of injustice I know is legal injustice. Injustice, to me, is when the law of the land has not been carried out on a certain individual.

faithless,

You are having a hard time with this question of justice because ultimately in your world there can be no injustice.

In your world there is only ego-centrism.

You can only define justice or injustice based on how it benefits or harms you.

This is why you keep referring to legal justice and the "law" of the land. It gives you an absolute higher than yourself. But laws can be unjust. The legal system is not an absolute.

It is just as Sartre taught...since there is no absolutes then to validate yourself you must act. ANY action to have an experience that gives your life meaning. Whether you walk a little old lady across the road or bash in her head...they have the same meaning.

Ego-centrism always gets you a very ugly world. You are trapped within a room with no windows or doors. There is no love and no beauty.

I weep for you my friend.

Steve

[The Journey]

In my view of the universe, there is no God, no moral structure, no justice. No one is looking out for you, and no one cares what happens to you. All life is inherently worthless and without meaning. It's depressing, it makes me want to cry, it makes me want to kill myself. But at least in this vision I'm not a slave. I don't have to bow down in front of a master and pray for him, like a powerless slave. And that means everything to me, because while I may view my life as worthless, at least I'm not powerless. Like I've already said to catsmeow, If I ever find out that everything I stood for was wrong, I would rather commit suicide than worship like a slave. God can do what he wants to me in the after life, but I won't bow down to him in this life.

But hopefully I'll turn out to be right, and when I die I'll just remain a forgotten memory instead of being tortured for eternity.

I now realize that coming here was a mistake. It's not your fault, you guys were good, this place just isn't for people like me.

Take care,

faithless

faithless is a sensitive person and these are often the most tortured. Artists, poets, philosophers are morbid and depressed because they live in a world without love, beauty or truth. They are sensitive and realize that they feel those things..yet they must ultimately conclude they are all an illusion.

it is a room without doors or windows. faithless doesn't want to be a "slave" for God yet he has created his own prison.

some will come to a knowledge of the Truth and escape into the freedom of the Light. many will not.

Steve

[Guest sanctification]

Faithless,

<< I'm not asking questions anymore because I don't have any more doubts about his non-existence. >>

That's fine. I respect you and accept your choice.

I do have one piece of advice, though. To prove yourself well-rounded in your stance in athiesm, you ought to read the bible and attend church once or twice. Understand what you reject. Do not prove to be "blind" in faith as you claim that we may be.... Rise above that.

I just want to add that I was an athiest who also saw Christians with a kind of "blind" faith, when I was about 17. Then I heard the words of the bible about God's love for me, and I asked Him this:

"God, if you are real, and really up there and you care, I keep hearing about this peace and this love, and this joy that you say you have. If you are really real, then won't you let me feel it? I am not sure that you are real, but if you are, then this will be the test to know it for sure. Would you give me that peace and love? Let me feel it. Just for a moment, so that I can know. Oh, and I acknowledge that Jesus is who he said he was."

(That last part about Jesus I kind of mumbled grudgingly because I wasn't sure that I believed it wholeheartedly but there was a part in me that wanted and had reason to believe it was true. You know, the idea that Jesus was God and that he was resurrected....)

The next day, I woke up with an inquenchable, deep joy, an unshakable peace, and a sense for love. And I have had it, ever since.

The reason why I know it was given to me from God--not from the devil and not just a coincidence:

1) It is this peace and joy that I have that has made me even care at all about reading the bible and trying to obey what He commands. It was so clearly good and a super gift that I started caring about God, which is something good.

2) This peace, joy and love that I have received is not sustained by me or my environment, which shifts moment to moment, but has been sustained perfectly since then; nine years--a miracle. A miracle because when I first prayed I was depressed and also suffering in abuse and would be for several more years, but, I had a hope because of this gift that changed my life.

I never attended a church till I was 20 (three years later). Now that is true religion--God came to me just because I asked Him to, not because of any group of people or because of any doctrine except believing in Jesus.

I encourage you to let someone teach you about the promises God has made written down in the bible, and see if there is not one that makes your heart excited to think it might be true. Take that promise, and your need, to God and, then see if He is real or not. He will come to you immediately, and it will be instant healing of your life, I promise, but don't take my word for it.

[Guest sanctification]

faithless, please come back? I want to talk to you some more.