just thinking

[Richard_yaash]

I was wondering if the tree of knowledge that adam and eve were not to eat of also signified the fact they also took from God what belong to Him and Him only?

Thus also a issue of tithing can be made as well?

what do you guys think?

Let's simplify this:

You have children, do you deny them anything that they need? No. You provide for all their needs.

Yet one day, while all their needs are met, they go ahead and stick their little hands into the cookie jar even after you have told them no.

As the cookies were not theirs to begin with, nor were they something in which they were given, I do not see the tithe as being applicable here.

Yes, they took that which was not theirs to take.

Just my 2 cents.

[Openly Curious]

I was wondering if the tree of knowledge that adam and eve were not to eat of also signified the fact they also took from God what belong to Him and Him only?

Thus also a issue of tithing can be made as well?

what do you guys think?

Adam and Eve did not "rob" God. It speaks in the book of Maliciah that says, "Will a man rob God?" speaking of the tithe.

This is the same principle that I see being applied by you saying they took what didn't belong to them

You have to remember that God did create the universe in which we live in and he created mankind male and females to live in this universe and it was God himself who placed mankind over all that he had made and gave him dominion of it and was told to be fruitful and mulitply. Adam and Eve in no way stole from God.

The tree of the knowlege of good and evil was placed in the garden and the only law that Adam and Eve had to obey was to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

You never saw Adam being tricked by the serpent and Adam remained faithful to God and was the stronger of the two of them as the serpent came to Eve and lied to her saying, hath God said you shall surely die. Eve believed the serpent as the serpent tricked her into eating the forbidden fruit and because Eve was decieved she was first in the transgression and was the weaker vessel of the two of them. As the serpent tempted the weaker vessel in order to get to Adam who would be the father of the entire human race and as Eve gave the forbidden fruit to Adam then both of them now had fallen from the state of innocence and broken the only law that was given at this time which was not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

I believe both Adam and Eve knew the consequences of what would happen if they ate of the forbidden tree as God had told them that they would surely die being a physical death and well as a spiritual death.

But everything in the garden Adam was put over it to keep it and dress it for God and of course they ate of the garden as God gave it to them for food the only thing they couldn't partake of was the forbidden tree. That tree was always right there with them the whole time they was in that garden.

But simply eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was in no way showing that Adam and Eve was stealing from God but what it showed was the weaker vessel Eve was decieved being in the transgression and broke the only law at that time and Adam who was the stronger of the two transgressed the law after he ate what Eve brought him therefore he also transgressed God's law and both ate from that forbidden tree transgressing the law of God.

So I don't think this has anything to do with tithing of any sorts.

OC

[patricia1]

Okay... okay i see what you guys are saying but instead of using cookies let us use....hmmmmm a jewel.

I supply all the need and keep the one jewel for my self. It is mine. does not belong to you for the taking. The knowledge of good and evil belonged to God. I decide I want it because I cannot have it. I stole the fruit of that tree ate it and obtained from it what God had because of it.

Same thing with that jewel... that person steals it. The person inhabits what belongs to me.

Now lets say Jesus speaks to me...He tells me just the same as adam that 500.00 I gave to you is all yours except for 1/10 th. That 1/10th belongs to Him but I do not listen as adam and eve did not listen and I take what does not belong to me for the taking...I just robbed God... is that not the same principle. Both have dire consequences.

God then protects the tree of knowledge and the tree of life by moving them out of the blessing they once had. Not as punishment mind you but to keep what is His safe and to keep them from eating of the tree of life and being in eternally sinning without forgiveness. They would not have been able to die.

Same as if I took my jewel back. Then I will keep that safe and that person from my home!

[Openly Curious]

It does not matter if you use cookies or jewels, apples or oranges because the bottom line is that no laws were given by God for Adam and Eve to follow in regards to tithing as those laws simply had not been given and so they were not in effect so where no law is there can be no transgression. If they was a law in effect then they would have been guilty of transgressing the law if they did not tithe but again there was no law for them in regards to tithing.

There was only one law in effect and that was if you eat of the forbidden tree then you will surely die and they both did as Eve was the one decieved and Adam ate when Eve brought some of the fruit of the forbidden tree to Adam.

They got kicked out of the garden so they wouldn't get back to that tree of life and eat from it and live forever but God cut them off keeping them from the tree of life because God knew that if they ate of the tree of life then they would be trapped in that fallen state but what that meant was that they would be forever growing old in that fallen state never being able to die. So it was a beautiful thing to me that God did cut them off from the tree of life because once again we will be able to eat of the tree of life and live forever in a ressurrected state.

But any regards to tithing does not pertain to any part of the story in the garden of Eden.

OC

[patricia1]

I am not talking about adam and eve...I am talking about takeing a principle and applying it to our lives today. I don't think people are getting the spiritual signifiance of what I am trying to relate here. oh well for another time , another place.

[Openly Curious]

I am not talking about adam and eve...I am talking about takeing a principle and applying it to our lives today. I don't think people are getting the spiritual signifiance of what I am trying to relate here. oh well for another time , another place.

I know you are not talking about Adam and Eve but you are talking about tithing. But in your talking about tithing you have used the story of Adam and Eve to try and make your point about tithing. I don't see that you have any point to make on tithing as tithing did not come into effect until God gave the laws to Moses. And even then the tithe was used to give in order to keep the temple work up and for the priest who did the work in the temple.

So to apply these laws to Adam and Eve is wrong it doesn't apply at all and Adam and Eve didn't steal anything from God they did however transgress the one and only law in effect and that law was they couldn't eat from the forbidden tree because once they did there would be consequences for doing so and that was that they would surely die.

If Adam and Eve has stolen from God which there was no such law regarding stealing by the way then why when God was cursing the serpent, Eve, Adam, and the ground as a result of breaking that one law. Then in your knowledge you say Adam and Eve stole from God taking what didn't belong to them then it should be that there would also been an additional punishment given seperate from eating of the forbidden tree as there would been consequeces of them stealing from God

And what you are saying does not coincide with the scriptures. And I do get what you are saying........................

OC

[stan4257]

I am not talking about adam and eve...I am talking about takeing a principle and applying it to our lives today. I don't think people are getting the spiritual signifiance of what I am trying to relate here. oh well for another time , another place.

Please don't feel isolated. I think I understand what you are saying, though I have some hesitation about the details.

To me, the principle that applies or should apply to all Christians is that all we have and are belongs to our loving Heavenly Father, through and because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Not because of any management rules and regulations that were so appropriate at the time of the Exodus. On that basis, we as Christians accept back from God out of all we have and are, whatever is necessary for us to live lives that glorify God.

That may be 50% or 90% or any percentage whatever. The percentage depends on our assets, needs and commitment.

In my mind, an emphasis on tithing risks lessening the concept of total commitment that truly belongs to Christians.

It seems possible to me that concentrating on the idea of 10% might lead some Christians into ignoring the total commitment made for us.

What you are saying, I think, is that if we take from God more than what belongs to us then we are stealing from him. So if all we have and are belongs to God and we use for ourselves more than is necessary for his glory we are stealing from him. Is that what you meant?

But there is definitely an important principle here, and one which you are trying to emphasise.

Thank you.

[stan4257]

In note form

[patricia1]

Thats exactly what I am saying.

I am not saying this rule applied to adam and eve but in essence they did steal without knowing. God even require obedience and sacrifice from cain and able. Cains was not accepted and abels was. Which is a depth of meaning that requires the heart. It is where we are lookin. At the forbidden fruit ( flrshly desires and wants) or want Jesus wants an requires of us. Thank-you for understanding. Cain stole a whole Generation of people from God.

I think the whole salvation message can be found in most of the books.

I see the Hoy spirit hovering over the earth, formless and void and dark. Which is also a analogy to me of the nonchristian soul and the Holy Spirit waiting to full that void.

So thanks for understanding what I am conveying.... It is the consequence to stealin from God I am concerned about.

Some christians are very lean in the Spirit and this could me a reason besides blameing the pastors. Some pastors have the Glory upon them. It is also a matter of faith bur I won't even get into that.

[Openly Curious]

Thats exactly what I am saying.

I am not saying this rule applied to adam and eve but in essence they did steal without knowing. God even require obedience and sacrifice from cain and able. Cains was not accepted and abels was. Which is a depth of meaning that requires the heart. It is where we are lookin. At the forbidden fruit ( flrshly desires and wants) or want Jesus wants an requires of us. Thank-you for understanding. Cain stole a whole Generation of people from God.

I think the whole salvation message can be found in most of the books.

I see the Hoy spirit hovering over the earth, formless and void and dark. Which is also a analogy to me of the nonchristian soul and the Holy Spirit waiting to full that void.

So thanks for understanding what I am conveying.... It is the consequence to stealin from God I am concerned about.

Some christians are very lean in the Spirit and this could me a reason besides blameing the pastors. Some pastors have the Glory upon them. It is also a matter of faith bur I won't even get into that.

Again in Malichi, "Will a man rob God?" this principle does not apply to Adam and Eve. No matter how you want to make it apply it doesn't apply. There is no place in the scriptures that you can give that will verify that Adam and Eve stole from God. There is no new revelation within the story of Adam and Eve. In fact the scriptures are very plain in the teachings regarding what went on in the garden and what was the consequesences of their disobedience to God. You are trying to build a teaching or doctrine around something that doesn't exist in the word.

OC