Celebrities

[artsylady]

I wasnt going to answer but I notice I was stamped a non believer. I might as well be an atheist, huh? I digress.

What do you mean? Your profile reads 'nonbeliever".

Excluding artlady, the people whom I assume art labled athiests, and everyone in the whole wide world, thought these special people can not have everything. Certainly not immortality. Therefore this thread failed.

I'm a bit confused by the above.

What does 'having it all mean to the world" or to evolution? Money, fame, brains? I'll reword the question.

[Ateam]

I wasnt going to answer but I notice I was stamped a non believer. I might as well be an atheist, huh? I digress.

What do you mean? Your profile reads 'nonbeliever".

I def believe in Jesus so search me why I am. Someone wanted to feel important. I'm not too worried about it, but it kind of throws people in the trash can you know. Carelessly putting lables on people is the root of rudeness for sure.

Edited March 27, 2008 by Ateam

[artsylady]

In the case of Mother Theresa, Mandela and ML King, they were fighting for causes they believed in. But were they depressed? Were they anxious, or at peace? Did they strive for the 'comfortable life' or did they endure hardships and pain?

Was Mandela happy and content during his 27 years in prison? Yes. He was offered freedom if he would stop his political endeavors but refused. From prison to president? He's a modern day Bible story.

I watched Through the Gates of Spendor last night. A movie about the five missionaries who were killed by the very dangerous Ouca tribe in the Amazon. What did their wives and children do? Head back to America? No, they willingly stayed and remained faithful to the work of God, eventually helping the Ouca's convert from their murderous lifestyle. Some of the children were actually baptized by those who killed their fathers. What is that? Is that possible without God?

Are all of these people 'delusional'?

Dave Barry, Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., Isaac Asimov, Andy Rooney, Douglas Adams, Berkeley Breathed, Carl Sagan, and the Dalai Lama.

Dave Barry the humor columnist?

Kurt Vonnegut Jr? A millionaire? What did he give up? For what cause?

Isaac Asimov? Andy Rooney? Douglas Adams? Berkeley Breathed? Sagan? They won awards and accolated, were able to afford university education, lived cushy lives, and earned millions.

Dalai Lama? Respected by most, faced no oppostion, born into monarchy, growing up in places. How do they compare?

[artsylady]

A Team.

I tried to send you a PM but it didn't work.

Here's what I said.

I'm sorry but I'm still confused. Did you put 'nonbeliever' on your profile or did someone else. Would you like it changed?

Do you feel someone labelled you incorrectly? I hope it wasn't me. If someone did it, it was probably by mistake as we don't want to label people as atheists if they are not.

[Ateam]

Someone else placed that nonbeliever lable, not me. Probably because I attend a different Jesus believeing church than they do. I also offered contrast opinion to spark interest that likely scared the managment team. That, I chuckle at sheltered people. So, I am not going to bother with that issue, its obvious im not welcomed.

[caughtinside]

In the case of Mother Theresa, Mandela and ML King, they were fighting for causes they believed in. But were they depressed? Were they anxious, or at peace? Did they strive for the 'comfortable life' or did they endure hardships and pain?

Was Mandela happy and content during his 27 years in prison? Yes. He was offered freedom if he would stop his political endeavors but refused. From prison to president? He's a modern day Bible story.

I watched Through the Gates of Spendor last night. A movie about the five missionaries who were killed by the very dangerous Ouca tribe in the Amazon. What did their wives and children do? Head back to America? No, they willingly stayed and remained faithful to the work of God, eventually helping the Ouca's convert from their murderous lifestyle. Some of the children were actually baptized by those who killed their fathers. What is that? Is that possible without God?

Are all of these people 'delusional'?

Dave Barry, Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., Isaac Asimov, Andy Rooney, Douglas Adams, Berkeley Breathed, Carl Sagan, and the Dalai Lama.

Dave Barry the humor columnist?

Kurt Vonnegut Jr? A millionaire? What did he give up? For what cause?

Isaac Asimov? Andy Rooney? Douglas Adams? Berkeley Breathed? Sagan? They won awards and accolated, were able to afford university education, lived cushy lives, and earned millions.

Dalai Lama? Respected by most, faced no oppostion, born into monarchy, growing up in places. How do they compare?

I guess I misunderstood where you were going with this. You addressed the thread to atheists, compared a shamelessy cherry-picked group of celebrities with tragic stories to three iconic social heroes, and asked, whaddya think? Why did you address atheists if your point was that those three had causes that they believed in? All of the people I listed have been inspiring in their own way, they all had or have purpose, and I really don't know what to say about that article you linked to.

You know what lady, my interest in dialogue with you has dropped below zero. Sorry.

Edited March 27, 2008 by caughtinside

[nebula]

Well, I'm not sure I would include Mother Teresa.

He certainly doesn't fit into artsylady's cherry-picked list of people who fizzled hard. Going beyond such extreme examples, it does get a bit tricky for us to decide on the quality of others' lives. Adams did have a tough love life. But he also lived a productive life, advocated for the environment, and was well-respected. So, who can say?

I, personally, was thinking he wasn't someone I would think of as at peace with his life. After all, what do you think of someone who writes a book (however fun it may be to read) based on the meaninglessness of life (nihilism) while in a drunken stupor?

[caughtinside]

Hi nebula,

My first thought is that I'd want to be careful not to pass judgement when I don't have enough information. What book are you referring to?

This is the problem with this thread. It's inviting us to pass judgement on all these people. This person had peace, or purpose, or value, because of this or that, but this person didn't, because of this or that. I don't know, do you really feel comfortable with this? I'm a leeetle embarrassed that I let myself get pulled into that game, so I'm going to cut my losses and pull out now.

Wait, not yet--I started reading a book called "Mountains Beyond Mountains", about Paul Farmer and the work he's done in Haiti and beyond, and I think the guy is a true hero. Perhaps we can all agree on that.

Peace out

[Grungekid]

Grungekid,

I only saw the movie once, but I did notice the nihilism you write about. Could there be a glimmer of hope in how Norton's character put the gun to his head and pulled the trigger--not a suicide attempt but an attempt to kill off that nihilistic part of himself?

Absolutely, but most people miss that part. They don't realize it's a disclaimer for every twisted thing Tyler Durdan said, everything the main character thought, basically everything the movie was showing us up to that point. That's also what disappointed me. By then the film has deviated so far from its original topic, I was just disillusioned with everything about it.

[artsylady]

I guess I misunderstood where you were going with this. You addressed the thread to atheists, compared a shamelessy cherry-picked group of celebrities with tragic stories to three iconic social heroes, and asked, whaddya think?

What do you mean "shamelessly" cherry-picked?

I did pick extremes on both ends of the spectrum, yes. I wanted your thoughts on what defines happiness, contentment or even success. I have my own viewpoint but wanted to know what the viewpoint of others would be. There are thousands of missionaries doing God's work in the remote jungles living in extremely difficult circumstances that are quite happy being in the will of God, and there are those who have money, fame, looks etc who are killing themselves. See where I'm going?

Why did you address atheists if your point was that those three had causes that they believed in? All of the people I listed have been inspiring in their own way, they all had or have purpose, and I really don't know what to say about that article you linked to.

You know what lady, my interest in dialogue with you has dropped below zero. Sorry.

Sorry. I was hoping for an enlightening discussion. You sound offended and I'm not sure why.