"Is lying always wrong?"

[Carol R]

I agree a lie is a lie, I have lied inthe past and sometimes its a case of it was out of my mouth before I thought, so I try to be slower to answer. I do apologise to God, and try to learn from it.

I prefer the truth even though sometimes it hurts, but if in the end it is going to help me make changes that are necessary then it is good.

[tsth]

Joshua 2:3 So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab: "Bring out the men who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy out the whole land." 4 But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said, "Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. 5 At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, the men left. I don't know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them." 6 (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.) 7 So the men set out in pursuit of the spies on the road that leads to the fords of the Jordan, and as soon as the pursuers had gone out, the gate was shut.

So, was Rahab condemned or blessed for protecting God's men with a lie?

Joshua 6:25 But Joshua spared Rahab the prostitute, with her family and all who belonged to her, because she hid the men Joshua had sent as spies to Jericho--and she lives among the Israelites to this day.

What is the "right" thing to do? (That should be the question always. Making a "right" judgment)

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest man]

You all have been very reticent.

What would you have me say?

Are you afraid of "Big Brother"?

Why would I be afraid of "Big Brother"?

Are you afraid of what looks like what may be the Judgment of The LORD GOD? Or what?

Again, what's there to fear?

This is a message board, so anyone in the world can view it, as you all know. Assume you all know the the Satan/devil and the other enemies {including Ephesians 6:10-18} can view it, so one has to take that into account.

My words are my witness.

'Detainee shouted and addressed lead as "the oldest Christian here" and wanted to know why lead allowed the detainee to be treated this way.'

*****my question to you all:what answer would you give the detainee? Were Christians doing the torture?

Did they profess to be "born again" christians?

[GeneV]

Joshua 2:3 So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab: "Bring out the men who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy out the whole land." 4 But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said, "Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. 5 At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, the men left. I don't know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them." 6 (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.) 7 So the men set out in pursuit of the spies on the road that leads to the fords of the Jordan, and as soon as the pursuers had gone out, the gate was shut.

So, was Rahab condemned or blessed for protecting God's men with a lie?

Joshua 6:25 But Joshua spared Rahab the prostitute, with her family and all who belonged to her, because she hid the men Joshua had sent as spies to Jericho--and she lives among the Israelites to this day.

What is the "right" thing to do? (That should be the question always. Making a "right" judgment)

In His Love,

Suzanne

Suzanne thank you for this post. The OP has a link specifically dealing with the "lie" of Rahab which further points out that our Lord and Master was a direct descendant of Rahab.

Yes lying is wrong but would I do anything different to Rahab, I would hope not.

Just to continue along the vein of lying how many of us can say we do not deceive ourselves and others in small ways everyday. I believe we do because we are not perfected yet and we simply justify or gloss over the act to make it sound good. How many of us can say we do no wrong?

Gene

[Rick-Parker]

Specifically treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo by the USA. As you all know who have been following the world news ever since 9/11, the USA {CIA, military} has tortured prisoners, had them sent to foreign countries for "rendition" [since the countries did not have USA "laws" re forbidding torture]. Then lied repeatedly about doing that, and had foreign heads of state lie to try to support those lies. Then admissions that these were lies.

The "outing" of an undercover CIA agent, Valerie Plame, is/was treason, straight and simple. Years of "investigations" and cover ups. The super straight-shooting Patrick Fitzgerald charged with getting to the bottom of this got "Scooter" Libby convicted of perjury. No one has been charged with treason and, apparently, the "investigation" is over.

These are facts as best as I believe. If I am wrong, PLEASE feel more than free to correct me. Anytime.

Add these to the prior facts I have given in posts in this chain and those I would believe you all probably know about just from following secular news. You all have been very reticent. Are you afraid of "Big Brother"? Are you afraid of what looks like what may be the Judgment of The LORD GOD? Or what? This is a message board, so anyone in the world can view it, as you all know. Assume you all know the the Satan/devil and the other enemies {including Ephesians 6:10-18} can view it, so one has to take that into account.

To me, the decades of Evil stink to high-heavens, literally. Me personally-would hopefully vomit before even thinking of asking God to "bless America". Gone on way too long w/o any hint of National repentence. In my view.

Specifically Guantanamo. The issue of "Time" for March 13, 2006 reported on a prisoner who had been tortured for a long time by USA personnel {treatment had been approved by President Bush/Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld}. I discovered that the hard-copy article of "Time" that I have does not agree with the online "Time" article [that piece of the article giving a snippet of the interrogation log labelled SECRET ORCON is not online]. Via Google I found this:

http://humanrights.ucdavis.edu/projects/th...-qahtani-week-3

'Detainee shouted and addressed lead as "the oldest Christian here" and wanted to know why lead allowed the detainee to be treated this way.'

*****my question to you all:what answer would you give the detainee? Were Christians doing the torture?

What does this propaganda have to do with it? Spewing garbage from UC Davis or any bastion of liberal academia? You are not dead, are you? Father, forgive me for my anger!

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

Specifically treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo by the USA. As you all know who have been following the world news ever since 9/11, the USA {CIA, military} has tortured prisoners, had them sent to foreign countries for "rendition" [since the countries did not have USA "laws" re forbidding torture]. Then lied repeatedly about doing that, and had foreign heads of state lie to try to support those lies. Then admissions that these were lies.

The "outing" of an undercover CIA agent, Valerie Plame, is/was treason, straight and simple. Years of "investigations" and cover ups. The super straight-shooting Patrick Fitzgerald charged with getting to the bottom of this got "Scooter" Libby convicted of perjury. No one has been charged with treason and, apparently, the "investigation" is over.

These are facts as best as I believe. If I am wrong, PLEASE feel more than free to correct me. Anytime.

Add these to the prior facts I have given in posts in this chain and those I would believe you all probably know about just from following secular news. You all have been very reticent. Are you afraid of "Big Brother"? Are you afraid of what looks like what may be the Judgment of The LORD GOD? Or what? This is a message board, so anyone in the world can view it, as you all know. Assume you all know the the Satan/devil and the other enemies {including Ephesians 6:10-18} can view it, so one has to take that into account.

To me, the decades of Evil stink to high-heavens, literally. Me personally-would hopefully vomit before even thinking of asking God to "bless America". Gone on way too long w/o any hint of National repentence. In my view.

Specifically Guantanamo. The issue of "Time" for March 13, 2006 reported on a prisoner who had been tortured for a long time by USA personnel {treatment had been approved by President Bush/Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld}. I discovered that the hard-copy article of "Time" that I have does not agree with the online "Time" article [that piece of the article giving a snippet of the interrogation log labelled SECRET ORCON is not online]. Via Google I found this:

http://humanrights.ucdavis.edu/projects/th...-qahtani-week-3

'Detainee shouted and addressed lead as "the oldest Christian here" and wanted to know why lead allowed the detainee to be treated this way.'

*****my question to you all:what answer would you give the detainee? Were Christians doing the torture?

What does this propaganda have to do with it? Spewing garbage from UC Davis or any bastion of liberal academia? You are not dead, are you? Father, forgive me for my anger!

Dear Brandon:

I forgive you for your "poison of asps" response. Opposite of James 1:19a. Slander against "Time" magazine also. Insult to me personally also. No way for you to know unless The LORD Jesus Christ revealed it, but much motivation for this chain goes back to when I was around 9 years old. From literal personal experience in 1992 and more, the devil {"diabolos"=false accuser John 8:44,10:10 much more} has hate and power that is indescribable. Please to all-make certain that you are in the whole armour of God:Ephesians 6:10-18. Pray always for wisdom-James 1:5. Thank You Father-Ephesians 5:20. Amen.

Maranatha. Agape and peace to all,

Ron...

[Rick-Parker]

Specifically treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo by the USA. As you all know who have been following the world news ever since 9/11, the USA {CIA, military} has tortured prisoners, had them sent to foreign countries for "rendition" [since the countries did not have USA "laws" re forbidding torture]. Then lied repeatedly about doing that, and had foreign heads of state lie to try to support those lies. Then admissions that these were lies.

The "outing" of an undercover CIA agent, Valerie Plame, is/was treason, straight and simple. Years of "investigations" and cover ups. The super straight-shooting Patrick Fitzgerald charged with getting to the bottom of this got "Scooter" Libby convicted of perjury. No one has been charged with treason and, apparently, the "investigation" is over.

These are facts as best as I believe. If I am wrong, PLEASE feel more than free to correct me. Anytime.

Add these to the prior facts I have given in posts in this chain and those I would believe you all probably know about just from following secular news. You all have been very reticent. Are you afraid of "Big Brother"? Are you afraid of what looks like what may be the Judgment of The LORD GOD? Or what? This is a message board, so anyone in the world can view it, as you all know. Assume you all know the the Satan/devil and the other enemies {including Ephesians 6:10-18} can view it, so one has to take that into account.

To me, the decades of Evil stink to high-heavens, literally. Me personally-would hopefully vomit before even thinking of asking God to "bless America". Gone on way too long w/o any hint of National repentence. In my view.

Specifically Guantanamo. The issue of "Time" for March 13, 2006 reported on a prisoner who had been tortured for a long time by USA personnel {treatment had been approved by President Bush/Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld}. I discovered that the hard-copy article of "Time" that I have does not agree with the online "Time" article [that piece of the article giving a snippet of the interrogation log labelled SECRET ORCON is not online]. Via Google I found this:

http://humanrights.ucdavis.edu/projects/th...-qahtani-week-3

'Detainee shouted and addressed lead as "the oldest Christian here" and wanted to know why lead allowed the detainee to be treated this way.'

*****my question to you all:what answer would you give the detainee? Were Christians doing the torture?

What does this propaganda have to do with it? Spewing garbage from UC Davis or any bastion of liberal academia? You are not dead, are you? Father, forgive me for my anger!

Dear Brandon:

I forgive you for your "poison of asps" response. Opposite of James 1:19a. Slander against "Time" magazine also. Insult to me personally also. No way for you to know unless The LORD Jesus Christ revealed it, but much motivation for this chain goes back to when I was around 9 years old. From literal personal experience in 1992 and more, the devil {"diabolos"=false accuser John 8:44,10:10 much more} has hate and power that is indescribable. Please to all-make certain that you are in the whole armour of God:Ephesians 6:10-18. Pray always for wisdom-James 1:5. Thank You Father-Ephesians 5:20. Amen.

Maranatha. Agape and peace to all,

Ron...

As I forgive you for offending me. Time mag? Surely you jest? Do you honor NY Times, Washington Post, and the L.A. Times? They are most definately left of center. Totally biased and Bush bashers. What is torture? Whom did we torture? You slander my country, and if you are an American, your own. I have a reason to be ticked when this junk is stated as fact when at most it is conjecture and highly subjective. If you need to know what torture is, just ask Sen. McCain.

I do apologize for offending you. I don't see how I did, but if you are offended, I have sinned and I ask your forgiveness.

God bless.

Rick

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

Specifically treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo by the USA. As you all know who have been following the world news ever since 9/11, the USA {CIA, military} has tortured prisoners, had them sent to foreign countries for "rendition" [since the countries did not have USA "laws" re forbidding torture]. Then lied repeatedly about doing that, and had foreign heads of state lie to try to support those lies. Then admissions that these were lies.

The "outing" of an undercover CIA agent, Valerie Plame, is/was treason, straight and simple. Years of "investigations" and cover ups. The super straight-shooting Patrick Fitzgerald charged with getting to the bottom of this got "Scooter" Libby convicted of perjury. No one has been charged with treason and, apparently, the "investigation" is over.

These are facts as best as I believe. If I am wrong, PLEASE feel more than free to correct me. Anytime.

Add these to the prior facts I have given in posts in this chain and those I would believe you all probably know about just from following secular news. You all have been very reticent. Are you afraid of "Big Brother"? Are you afraid of what looks like what may be the Judgment of The LORD GOD? Or what? This is a message board, so anyone in the world can view it, as you all know. Assume you all know the the Satan/devil and the other enemies {including Ephesians 6:10-18} can view it, so one has to take that into account.

To me, the decades of Evil stink to high-heavens, literally. Me personally-would hopefully vomit before even thinking of asking God to "bless America". Gone on way too long w/o any hint of National repentence. In my view.

Specifically Guantanamo. The issue of "Time" for March 13, 2006 reported on a prisoner who had been tortured for a long time by USA personnel {treatment had been approved by President Bush/Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld}. I discovered that the hard-copy article of "Time" that I have does not agree with the online "Time" article [that piece of the article giving a snippet of the interrogation log labelled SECRET ORCON is not online]. Via Google I found this:

http://humanrights.ucdavis.edu/projects/th...-qahtani-week-3

'Detainee shouted and addressed lead as "the oldest Christian here" and wanted to know why lead allowed the detainee to be treated this way.'

*****my question to you all:what answer would you give the detainee? Were Christians doing the torture?

What does this propaganda have to do with it? Spewing garbage from UC Davis or any bastion of liberal academia? You are not dead, are you? Father, forgive me for my anger!

Dear Brandon:

I forgive you for your "poison of asps" response. Opposite of James 1:19a. Slander against "Time" magazine also. Insult to me personally also. No way for you to know unless The LORD Jesus Christ revealed it, but much motivation for this chain goes back to when I was around 9 years old. From literal personal experience in 1992 and more, the devil {"diabolos"=false accuser John 8:44,10:10 much more} has hate and power that is indescribable. Please to all-make certain that you are in the whole armour of God:Ephesians 6:10-18. Pray always for wisdom-James 1:5. Thank You Father-Ephesians 5:20. Amen.

Maranatha. Agape and peace to all,

Ron...

As I forgive you for offending me. Time mag? Surely you jest? Do you honor NY Times, Washington Post, and the L.A. Times? They are most definately left of center. Totally biased and Bush bashers. What is torture? Whom did we torture? You slander my country, and if you are an American, your own. I have a reason to be ticked when this junk is stated as fact when at most it is conjecture and highly subjective. If you need to know what torture is, just ask Sen. McCain.

I do apologize for offending you. I don't see how I did, but if you are offended, I have sinned and I ask your forgiveness.

God bless.

Rick

Dear Rick:

Don't want to repeat my post #37.Please read it carefully. Please try to obey James 1:19-the whole verse. I did not report your post which clearly violated worthyboard's TOS-try to keep that in mind also.

Torture has been attempted to be defined by the Geneva Convention. If you had been carefully following the statements of President Bush, Rumsfield, the various CIA Directors, the Justice Department, McCain etc. you would see the contradictions over and over and over. I have a great amount of hard-copy of exact statements. Some from the white house web site included. You should know about the prison abuse and torture in Iraq by USA, and how those at the bottom got punished and those higher up did not. That SECRET ORCON log, if you had taken the time to read it, shows a long period of torture.

I grew up in the 1950s {my father was a disabled WWII war veteran who died when I was a teen}. So Rick-back off. You are way out of line and interfering with the topic of this chain. Spiritual War is real-Ephesians 6:10-18. Please study that.

Don't think you are aware of your spirit here [as yet]. Was told back in the 1950s that the godless commies were always liars. Eisenhower was the first President that lied in one of my formative years-1960. He was sorry after-said the USSR lied about having shot down an USA U2 and had the pilot Gary Powers. Eisenhower said they were lying-but he repented.

Trying to teach you truth-offensive? Calling this "junk" and saying I slander this country:totally ignorant comments. Nicest way I can tell you that. Those lying and torturing and assassinating foreign leaders in the name of "this great country"-those are the "evildoers". If the leaders of this or any country are "forced" into doing the works of the devil, then what? Does anything/everything go because we are the "good guys"?

1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Hope this helps you Rick. 1 Corinthians 14 -that all may learn and all may be comforted and THE Jesus Christ's Church may be edified. My heart of hearts prayer for everything.

Agape and peace,

Ron...

[Rick-Parker]

DEE-DEE-DEE!

[specops7]

I might as well end this discussion for every christian here trying to seek the truth.

Exodus 1

15 Then the king of Egypt spoke to the Hebrew midwives, of whom the name of one was Shiphrah and the name of the other Puah; 16 and he said,