"Is lying always wrong?"

[~~ angelique ~~]

Before clicking on the link below, would you answer that question:

1. Yes

2. No

3. It all depends

or some other way?

Then, what would you believe that The Holy Bible teaches?.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1999/may24/9t6068.html

I would say it all depends upon the situation.

[Scarletprayers]

After all of you are done meditating on this piece, add this into your meditation:

http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?show...rits+sent\

1. If you "had" to lie to protect a loved one, would you? YES

2. If you "had" to lie as a military leader/Intelligence person [including giving out false information/disinformation/half-truths] would you? YES

3. If you "had" to lie to protect a nation, as President/king/leader/..., would you? YES

4. If you "had" to lie to keep your covenant, would you? To protect myself probably not

5. Which is higher priority-keeping your word/promise/covenant/Covenant or telling less than 100% truths to keep those ? ????????

[hr.jr.]

Before clicking on the link below please give your answer to the Poll.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1999/may24/9t6068.html

Yes it is always wrong and there are ways to tell the truth without being offensive...

You over simplify the question. It is not always wrong to lie. Throughoughout the old Testament, the battle strategies of Israel were based ond deception, mis-direction, and ambush. All of which were lies. Using camouflage, or stealth technology in battle is a lie. It is an attempt to deceive an enemy. The Battle strategy Given Gideon to conceal the lamps, and break them with a loud shout was a form of deception.

[hr.jr.]

Then, what would you believe that The Holy Bible teaches?.

The Holy Bible teaches:

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." John 8:44 (NIV)

Those who lie speak as children of the father of lies.

I seem to remember that Paul hid himself and was let down the wall in a basket. That is a form of deception and thus a lie. The person hiding him was lying. The Spies in Jericho were hidden and Rahab lied to protect them.

[Scarletprayers]

Lying is always wrong, that is the 9th commandment.

No that commandment is about "lying" about someone, to cause them trouble or harm.

[hr.jr.]

Lying is always wrong, that is the 9th commandment.

What does the 9th commandment say? I am assuming you are reading from a literal and not a paraphrase translation.

This was penned by Moses, the master of deceptive battle strategy?

[Guest Biblicist]

Lets face it, lying is one of the easiest and most common of sins. Why?

Genesis 3

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,

3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'"

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.

5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"

Satan used lies to confuse and cause Adam and Eve to sin. Lies began in the garden. Saying, "Well, Rahab lied...the midwives lied..." doesn't make lying OK. It only gives us a reason to feel not so bad about the fact that we lie. We exagerate, we joke, we tease, we deny, we embellish stories, we twist the facts to suit our own purpose, we don't tell the whole story...We even celebrate a day of lies...TODAY! April 1st. We lie. To others, to ourselves, and to God. It's wrong. God's word clearly tells us it is.

The truth is that it's forgivable. It's a sin. But it's forgivable. The blood of Jesus Christ was shed for just such a sin.

Romans 8

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

The reason Rahab and the Midwives were not condemned was because they were in Christ Jesus. Their FAITH was their freedom from the law of sin and death.

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

After all of you are done meditating on this piece, add this into your meditation:

http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?show...rits+sent\

1. If you "had" to lie to protect a loved one, would you? YES

2. If you "had" to lie as a military leader/Intelligence person [including giving out false information/disinformation/half-truths] would you? YES

3. If you "had" to lie to protect a nation, as President/king/leader/..., would you? YES

4. If you "had" to lie to keep your covenant, would you? To protect myself probably not

5. Which is higher priority-keeping your word/promise/covenant/Covenant or telling less than 100% truths to keep those ? ????????

Dear Redwing:

Thank you for pointing out Revelation 21:8 in your post #14. The King James Version is:

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Believe there is general knowledge that the CIA has assassinated foreign leaders in the past . The question as to who killed President John F. Kennedy November 22, 1963 {CIA/Mafia/ ???} and the very poor investigation by The Warren Commission is quite an open issue even today. The legalized murder of the unborn started with Roe v Wade in 1973. The LORD God HATES that! Lots more...

This question is to me quite deadly serious:

How does one know that we, USA, are not the Revelation 13:11 Beast out of the earth which is the false prophet for the Revelation 13:1- Beast out of the sea? How does one distinguish a leadership/government which justifies/makes legal the works of the devil from one approved of by The Lord Jesus Christ? I personally am seeing a better and better "fit" with Revelation 12 and 13 to current events:

Rev 13:1

Edited April 2, 2008 by ajesuschrist_mathetes

[mead]

I want to say it all depends but deep down inside I know it's wrong.

Lying is deceiving. There is no truth in deception.

Now to your link.

I agree, a lie is a lie.

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

Specifically treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo by the USA. As you all know who have been following the world news ever since 9/11, the USA {CIA, military} has tortured prisoners, had them sent to foreign countries for "rendition" [since the countries did not have USA "laws" re forbidding torture]. Then lied repeatedly about doing that, and had foreign heads of state lie to try to support those lies. Then admissions that these were lies.

The "outing" of an undercover CIA agent, Valerie Plame, is/was treason, straight and simple. Years of "investigations" and cover ups. The super straight-shooting Patrick Fitzgerald charged with getting to the bottom of this got "Scooter" Libby convicted of perjury. No one has been charged with treason and, apparently, the "investigation" is over.

These are facts as best as I believe. If I am wrong, PLEASE feel more than free to correct me. Anytime.

Add these to the prior facts I have given in posts in this chain and those I would believe you all probably know about just from following secular news. You all have been very reticent. Are you afraid of "Big Brother"? Are you afraid of what looks like what may be the Judgment of The LORD GOD? Or what? This is a message board, so anyone in the world can view it, as you all know. Assume you all know the the Satan/devil and the other enemies {including Ephesians 6:10-18} can view it, so one has to take that into account.

To me, the decades of Evil stink to high-heavens, literally. Me personally-would hopefully vomit before even thinking of asking God to "bless America". Gone on way too long w/o any hint of National repentence. In my view.

Specifically Guantanamo. The issue of "Time" for March 13, 2006 reported on a prisoner who had been tortured for a long time by USA personnel {treatment had been approved by President Bush/Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld}. I discovered that the hard-copy article of "Time" that I have does not agree with the online "Time" article [that piece of the article giving a snippet of the interrogation log labelled SECRET ORCON is not online]. Via Google I found this:

http://humanrights.ucdavis.edu/projects/th...-qahtani-week-3

'Detainee shouted and addressed lead as "the oldest Christian here" and wanted to know why lead allowed the detainee to be treated this way.'

*****my question to you all:what answer would you give the detainee? Were Christians doing the torture?

Edited April 5, 2008 by ajesuschrist_mathetes