another question about the Sabbath

[Guest shiloh357]

Gen. 9:3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.

Now, this even though there were 7 times more clean animals on the ark.

I dont think it would be correct to assume that God was including pigs and other unclean animals in the "Every moving thing that lives" category. It was precisely because God knew in advance that man would be eating meat and making sacrifices that He put 7 of each pair of clean animals into the ark.

God would never instruct man to eat or partake of something unclean. That is contrary to His nature. God made sure that there were pleanty of clean animals for man to eat. Drawing from what we know about God, and plugging that into this verse, we can see that God was talking about every clean thing.

[AllforJesustheLord]

The literal Seventh day SHaBBoT(Sabbath), was taught right away when man was made, God rested on the seventh day.

[Botz]

What day of the week was that then?

[Guest shiloh357]

It is the same as it has always been. If one can count, one should have no problem knowing what day the Seventh day is. God showed the children of Israel which day that was. They (and we) have known ever since.

[Guest yod]

lemme see....

one....two.....three.....four....five......uh...where was I?

one....two....three....four.....ahhhh forget it.....

one.....OK...that's easier so I'll just pretend it's been changed

[Botz]

Interesting...the day traditionally celebrated as a day of rest has been what we call a saturday for some and a sunday for others or even a friday...I just wonder if the import about keeping the Shabbat was no so much exactly what day it was...but that man works for 6 days and then rest on the 7th day as given the example by the L-rd... This being the case there would be a shift of emphasis and those of different traditions would be carrying out the spirit of the Law and not the letter...and some of the contentious arguments would be weakened.

[Guest shiloh357]

I just wonder if the import about keeping the Shabbat was no so much exactly what day it was...but that man works for 6 days and then rest on the 7th day as given the example by the L-rd... This being the case there would be a shift of emphasis and those of different traditions would be carrying out the spirit of the Law and not the letter...and some of the contentious arguments would be weakened.

The import is EXACTLY is found in which day it is. God, by not allowing manna to fall on the Sabbath showed which day it was.

Furthermore, the Sabbath is a picture as Christ being the ONLY way of salvation. For people to say that the exact day is unimportant is like saying that the actual path of salvaton is unimportant. There is only ONE Sabbath, and there is only one way of salvation.

To make the Sabbath arbitrary, is the symbolic equivilant to making the way of salvation arbitrary.

I would also ask this: If it doesn't really matter which day is the Sabbath, why is everyone so opposed to the Sabbath being on the seventh day of the week? If it doesn't matter why does anyone make an issue of it at all?

I think it is funny that no one cares what day you observe the Sabbath on, UNTIL they find out that you observe the seventh day of the week. All of a sudden they start talking about legalism and trying to claim that it is not the Sabbath. The minute someone observes the biblical Sabbath, it DOES matter to everyone else? Why all the two-facedness?

[Botz]

The import is EXACTLY is found in which day it is. God, by not allowing manna to fall on the Sabbath showed which day it was.

No argument from me.

Perhaps I could explore this by saying...the Jewish Shabbat is celebrated at sundown on the evening of friday when the first three stars are seen in the sky...until sundown on saturday.

The importance of keeping Shabbat is traditionally and biblically within a purely Jewish context.

Is it then possible for a Christian believer in the Jewish Messiah to keep the spirit of Shabbat by resting on a Sunday...or is he under obligation to celebrate the Jewish Shabbat which has been alien to his culture and tradition....because the day is part of the importance.

I have noticed that in many things...especially when a principle and a heart attitude are involved..there is great leeway with G-d but sometimes a degree of inflexibility on the behalf of man who proposes to protect Gods ordinances.

I recall the story of Naaman and how eventually he does what Elisha says and dips in the Jordan 7 times and is healed physically and comes to believe in the G-d of Israel...but in 2Kings 5:18 he says to Elisha.

"IN THIS MATTER MAY THE L-RD PARDON YOUR SERVANT:WHEN MY MASTER GOES INTO THE HOUSE OF RIMMON TO WORSHIP THERE,AND HE LEANS ON MY HAND AND I BOW MYSELF IN THE HOUSE OF RIMMON,THE L-RD PARDON YOUR SERVANT IN THIS MATTER."

And he(Elisha) said to him,"GO IN PEACE."

Or again when we look at 2 Chronicles 30:1-4 we see the Passover was not celebrated in the 1st month as it should have been celebrated but in the 2nd because things were not ready in time...but verse 4 says...

THUS THE THING WAS RIGHT IN THE SIGHT OF THE KING AND ALL THE ASSEMBLY.

Then later in verse 23 they had such a good time that they celebrated Passover for another 7 days..where they got their jokes and after dinner speeches from I couldn't tell you..but they had a blast.

So my humble point/query/curiosity was that especially in Messiah there is a great joy in being obedient to the L-rd according to truth...and according to the Spirit which gives life. I don't remember the council in Jerusalem imposing a strict Shabbat observance on anyone least of all the Gentiles Acts 15:28-29..

I actually prefer to celebrate Shabbat with Jewish friends especially in Israel...but at home in the UK our Church is on a Sunday and the week is geared to a Sunday...so I happily take my Shabbat on a Sunday...and am learning to try and really make it a day devoted to G-d and the family... free from the cares of the weekly work.

[Guest shiloh357]

Actually the Christian celebrates the Sabbath by resting Christ for his salvation.

Again, by labeling another day as the Sabbath and celebrating that day as seems right unto himself, one is ruining the picture of the Sabbath.

If one wants to rest on Sunday that is fine, one can rest on any day he wants.

God has defined for us which day He has set aside as the Sabbath, and has never demonstrated any leeway on that.

We do not possess the power to abrogate God's Sabbath in preference for another day. God and God alone makes the day holy; He has never imparted that right to man.

Or again when we look at 2 Chronicles 30:1-4 we see the Passover was not celebrated in the 1st month as it should have been celebrated but in the 2nd because things were not ready in time...but verse 4 says...

That is not a demonstration of God's "leeway" on the matter, because the Torah already allowed for the Passover to be celebrated in the second month in the event that one was prevented from celebrating it at the proper time. You can see that in the book of Numbers. God was not allowing his Law to be broken, but rather His law was kept perfectly. So that really does not speak to the issue.

[Botz]

I take your point about the Passover illustration...I thought perhaps the other illustration was reasonable.

It is not a question of labelling another day as the Shabbat....the Shabbat is the Shabbat....but using another day to do what the spirit of the Shabbat was designed for..especially in the case of us Lawless Gentiles who do not have the great benefit of the History and Traditions of our Jewish Brethren....something to do with keeping the bond of Unity.

It is intriguing to see from Scripture that in some weeks there can be more than one Shabbat and that they fall on different days of the same week.

If one wants to rest on Sunday that is fine, one can rest on any day he wants.

Great.

We are just chewing the cud...exchanging ideas...fellowshipping even.