The Gospels and Paul

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (deut31:12 @ Jun 4 2008, 11:24 AM)

What was supposed to be garnered from Mat 25 is that we are all going to be judged on the same day for the same things. Meaning that we are responsible for doing the will of God as we are going to be judged by it.

Wrong. I have already been judged. I was judged righteous the minute I was saved. Jesus said in John 5:24 and in John 6:47 that I already have eternal life and in John 5:24, he says that I shall not come under judgment and have passed from death to life.

I will stand before the judgment seat of Christ to receive my reward for service, but as far as salvation is concerned, that account has been settled, and I am a child of God.

Too many people believe that they must continue to work in order to tip the scales of heaven in their favor on the day of judgment. The problem is that where salvation is concerned, there are no scales. Either you accepted Christ as savior, or you didn't. That is what determines your eternal destiny. Nothing you DO has any bearing on where you spend eternity. Only faith in Christ.

Either your faith is in Jesus for salvation alone, OR you are not a Christian. Christianity is predicated in part upon the full sufficiency of Christ's finished work on the cross.

[deut31:12]

QUOTE (deut31:12 @ Jun 4 2008, 11:24 AM)

What was supposed to be garnered from Mat 25 is that we are all going to be judged on the same day for the same things. Meaning that we are responsible for doing the will of God as we are going to be judged by it.

Wrong. I have already been judged. I was judged righteous the minute I was saved. Jesus said in John 5:24 and in John 6:47 that I already have eternal life and in John 5:24, he says that I shall not come under judgment and have passed from death to life.

I will stand before the judgment seat of Christ to receive my reward for service, but as far as salvation is concerned, that account has been settled, and I am a child of God.

Too many people believe that they must continue to work in order to tip the scales of heaven in their favor on the day of judgment. The problem is that where salvation is concerned, there are no scales. Either you accepted Christ as savior, or you didn't. That is what determines your eternal destiny. Nothing you DO has any bearing on where you spend eternity. Only faith in Christ.

You are completely wrong.

First, John 5:24 does not say everything that you say it does.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. - John 5:24

There is nothing here that says we won't be judged. What you are are also doing is defining belief as just my believing in God and not defining it as James did. If we truly believe on God as we say we do then we will follow the scriptures as they were meant for us to do. We will repent and abstain from our sins. We will seek out, through the scriptures, what God's will is in how he wants us to be saved. We will live our lives as he set out through the bible in how we are to live it.

You are only taking certain parts of the scriptures to support the ways in which you want to believe by leaving out others and professing that they add to what Jesus did on the cross. Your understanding is completely wrong in how you are applying that Jesus did everything on the cross for us and there is nothing that we can do to direct where we spend eternity.

Either your faith is in Jesus for salvation alone, OR you are not a Christian. Christianity is predicated in part upon the full sufficiency of Christ's finished work on the cross.

This is also incorrect. You will never find where it says that we are saved by faith alone. If that were true then there would have been no reason for James to spell it out for us that we are NOT justified by faith only.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. - James 2:24

I know, justification is not the same as sanctification. Well, that is not what this verse is talking about so that argument is not viable. To sanctify is to free from our sins. To justify is be righteous before God. When we were saved we were sanctified, but after that we are still required to obey the scriptures. In doing that we are righteous before God. NOT by faith alone. "He that doeth righteousness is righteous even as he is righteous."

What you are trying to do is say that our works of righteousness before God, which is our obedience to the scriptures, taking away from what Jesus did on the cross. What your form of Christianity and doctrine of God has done is taken away from the power of repentance, power of baptism, power of obedience, and most of the scriptures given to us to follow. You have taken all the way down to say that none of these are needed for man to follow because we are saved by faith only and that Jesus did everything for us on the cross. So, by this we don't need to obey, follow, or do anything that is written in the scriptures as long as we have faith because Jesus did everything for us on the cross.

I know you are wrong just by one of many verses given to us by God.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. - 2 John 1:9

To transgress is pass over. How many scriptures do we pass over and not uphold because we live by the understanding that anything that we do is adding what Jesus did on the cross? If it is true, as you are defining it, that Jesus did everything according to the plan of salvation of God on the cross then Jesus would not have told the Apostles to go into all the world preaching the gospel coupled with baptizing them. Philippians 2:12 would not be telling us to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". We would not be told faith without works is dead. We would not be told that sins would keep even saints from inheriting eternal life (Rom 13:8-10).

We can't have salvation without faith, but we also can't have it without our works of obedience to the faith. Obedience to the law alone won't save us either if there isn't faith. That is why it says that works of the law don't save. Through our faith we keep the commandments of written for us throughout the scriptures. Our keeping of the commandments is our works of righteousness before God. You cannot separate the two and it should be understood that whenever we read that we are saved by faith that our faith without these works is dead. Just as our works without faith is dead.

If there was nothing that we could do that would determine if we go to heaven or not then there would have been no need to write the scriptures as seen in Mat 25. Nor scriptures like this:

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. - Revelation 22:14-15

Those who DO his commandments have the right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gate, but those who are dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, and liars will not be able to enter in. If there is nothing that we can do that will determine the outcome of our fate then why go through all of this to explain who will enter in and who won't?

You say if our salvation is not by faith alone then we are not Christians. Scriptures tells it different. I have shown where scripture tells us that our faith needs to be coupled with obedience or it is dead. I have even shown what our obedience is.

[Ovedya]

What if James was wrong?

[Guest shiloh357]

You are completely wrong.

First, John 5:24 does not say everything that you say it does.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. - John 5:24

There is nothing here that says we won't be judged.

Actually the Greek word "krisis" as used here is a refererence to judgment. It is also rendered as accusation. It simply states that those of us who are truly saved, have already been justified.

Justification is a legal declarative rendering of innocence. I cannot be judged if my standing before God has been rendered as "innocent." On the basis of faith in Christ I have been declared as innocent as if Adam had never sinned.

If we truly believe on God as we say we do then we will follow the scriptures as they were meant for us to do.

I agree, but what I reject is the notion that we must work in order to maintain or ensure salvation. Our works reveal our faith; they are not the means by which salvation is procured or maintained. That is the ONLY biblcal view on the issue.

This is also incorrect. You will never find where it says that we are saved by faith alone. If that were true then there would have been no reason for James to spell it out for us that we are NOT justified by faith only.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. - James 2:24

Wrong again. James was talking about our testimony of Christ being justified by our works in the sight of men. Mental assent will not produce godliness. Only true biblical faith produces a godly life. That is James point. James was NOt referring to justification before God. Paul clearly states in Romans 3:28, that we are justified by faith alone apart from the works of the law. If you disagree, then you are disagreeing with the Bible.

In doing that we are righteous before God. NOT by faith alone. "He that doeth righteousness is righteous even as he is righteous."

No we are not rightoues before God by doing anything. You don't know the Bible. A righteous person will do what is righteous BECAUSE of what Christ has done. You are not quoting a verse that states that righeousness comes from doing what is right. The point of that little quote from the Bible is that you will know the rightesous person by what he does. A rightesous person does what is right. It is the natural outgrowth of who he is in Christ. That is all that it means.

I know you are wrong just by one of many verses given to us by God.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. - 2 John 1:9

John was talking about false teachers. The "transgression" he is referring to pertains to those who reject the doctrine of Christ and proclaim that Jesus did not come in the flesh. (v. 7) He is referring here specifically to those who are not Christians who do not abide in the doctrine of Christ (Jesus being full man and fully God) are not Christians and according to v. 10, should not be received in to our houses.

All John is doing is showing us how we can recognize and avoid false teachers.

We can't have salvation without faith, but we also can't have it without our works of obedience to the faith.

This is where you are wrong. Our works come AFTER salvation. They are NEVER presented in Scripture as being necessary for salvation's procurement. You are trying to be saved by your works and doing so you are rejecting finished work of redemption of Christ on the cross.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. - Revelation 22:14-15

Those who DO his commandments have the right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gate, but those who are dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, and liars will not be able to enter in. If there is nothing that we can do that will determine the outcome of our fate then why go through all of this to explain who will enter in and who won't?

You are interpreting the passage backwards. It is not saying that keeping the commandments is what gives us the right to the tree of life. Those who do his commandments are the redeemed community. That is WHY they keep his commandments. You have it turned around. You are trying to say that it was their obedience that determined their salvation. The Bible teachs that is our salvation that determines our works. Our eternal destinty is tied to cross not to our works.

If there is nothing that we can do that will determine the outcome of our fate

this premise shows where your faith really lies. Your faith is based upon the premise that YOU are the one who ultimately determines your eternal destiny and thus for you, salvation is a reward for obedience and not a free gift of God's grace (Romans 6:23) in saying that, it is you trying to save yourself.

You are peddling a false gospel based upon human works and not upon the shed blood and work of Christ on the cross.

[deut31:12]

Shiloh,

Anybody can claim that somebody is peddling a false doctrine, especially when they don't want to accept what it told.

In reading what you are saying you are trying to express a faith in that anything that a Christian does after they are born again has no bearing on their salvation. You are incorrect and don't understand what is being said. You keep looking at what I am saying and putting your own understanding on it to support your rebuttal.

After reading what you believe one can only see that your belief is that Jesus did everything for mankind by his death on the cross and even though through our faith we keep the commandments in the scriptures it is only by our faith and has no bearing on our salvation. When your mind and heart are only pointed towards the understanding that you have then it is true, but scripture says different.

Of course there is not such thing as a works based salvation and we don't do works to earn salvation, but we are told to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. This is written for a reason. What Jesus did on the cross was provide us a way to be reconciled back to God. You base all of Christianity on that and claim that anything we do after that is adding what Jesus did on the cross. That is incorrect. We do what we are told because of what Jesus did on the cross. We are debtors to live after the Spirit and not after the flesh.

What the OP was trying to express is that by way of scripture we can see that there is some responsibility on our parts to keep in the faith by keeping the commandments of the scriptures. Some of what we are told is to keep away from sin and there is a recompense if we do not.

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. - Ephesians 5:3-6

What your way of teaching is doing is deceiving people into thinking that not doing what the scriptures tells us to do and doing what the scriptures tell us not to do has no bearing on our salvation when this group of scriptures says otherwise.

As we become Christians we are not to let any of these sins be a part of our lives or we will not inherit the kingdom of God and have the wrath of God to look forward to.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. - 2 John 1:9

Again, if we do not abide in the doctrine of Christ we do not have God. Abide means to continue in.

What James was saying is not that we show our works before men. That is just a justification to keep the true definition of what is being said. What you are doing is dismissing the correct understanding of James so that you can stand on Romans alone. I believe the bible and believe that both Romans and James make valid points in what they are conversing. James takes faith in defines what it is. Faith is just not empty belief, but and actual working belief in that we are to show our belief in our obedience in doing the will of God.

Where you are not understanding is that, of course we are not justified by the deeds of the law, but in such our faith, that justifies us, is dead without our deeds of the law. Not the Old Law, but the law given to us by Jesus through the New Testament. Nobody will go to heaven without obeying the commandments under the New Testament. We know that not keeping the commandments is what constitutes sin. We also know that doing the will of God is to keep the commandments. We also know that keeping the commandments and avoiding sin is what "works" are. Not defined by doing deeds for others, but doing the will of God.

Even though our keeping the commandments is by faith, to not keep the commandments is sin and that is what will keep us from obtaining heaven.

It's not that I am "peddling a false gospel based upon human works and not upon the shed blood and work of Christ on the cross", it's that you want to follow a religion where most of the bible is ignored to support a watered down version of what the bible actually teaches.

Jesus said, "If you love me keep my commandments". We also see scriptures that say that if we do not keep the commandments that we will not inherit the kingdom of God. I think this is where you greatly don't understand, I agree that works/keeping the commandments don't save us, but you don't grasp the idea that not keeping them will keep us out of heaven.

[eric]

HI deut 31:12,

the commanments that Jesus was referring to you will find in Mark 12 :2 -31. I'm afraid that Shiloh is right and you are wrong.What James is referring about works, is that people will judge you by what you do, after you are saved. Christ has already judged you and has accepted you. Who cares what others think of. If Jesus says your faith has saved you, then you are saved. You do not have run all over the place and trying to prove to all and sundry, by witnessing to everyone you meet or doing great deeds. Read Rom 10: 9-10. and Eph 2:8-9...

[Guest shiloh357]

I think this is where you greatly don't understand, I agree that works/keeping the commandments don't save us, but you don't grasp the idea that not keeping them will keep us out of heaven.

This is basically the summation of your entire post, so I will address this. Your position is internally inconsistent. You are holding to something that is more or less, a contradiction.

If your works don't save you, then they cannot maintain your salvattion. You are trying to promote the idea that we are saved by faith, but our works are required to maintain that salvation, otherwise we won't get to heaven i.e., remain saved.

Your are working from the misguided notion that God is as pleased with your good works as you are. Your position only works if as humans were able not to keep the commandments perfectly, but to fulfill the rightesousness of them as well. That is where your position basically falls apart.

Salvation is predicated on our ability to meet God's righteous standard daily, and we cant. That is why the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, according to Roman 8:4. That is the ONLY thing that keeps us saved. It is Jesus in us fulfilling the righteousness of the law. He is living out God standard on our behalf in us, in the person of the Holy Spirit.

Your works are, or should be the outgrowth of salvation, not the means of either procuring it or maintaining it. Your works could not get you to God, and they are certainly not able to keep you there.

Salvation is Jesus holding on to you, not you holding on to Jesus.

What the OP was trying to express is that by way of scripture we can see that there is some responsibility on our parts to keep in the faith by keeping the commandments of the scriptures. Some of what we are told is to keep away from sin and there is a recompense if we do not.

I don't disagree that works are necessary for us after we are saved. I am all about obedience, strict obedience to the Bible. Where I disagree with you is the what works are necessary FOR. You are trying to front a legalistic almost pharisaic approach, claiming that works are necessary to maintain salvation, and still amounts to a works-based salvation.

In your approach is YOU and not God, that ultimately determines whether you do or do not go to heaven. In your approach, salvation is not a work of God, but rather the result of your rightesous living and that makes salvation a reward for service instead a pure gift of God's grace. That means, necessarily that you are peddling a different gospel than Paul preached.

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. - Ephesians 5:3-6

What your way of teaching is doing is deceiving people into thinking that not doing what the scriptures tells us to do and doing what the scriptures tell us not to do has no bearing on our salvation when this group of scriptures says otherwise.

The problem is that that Scripture is not saying what you are painting it to say.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. - 2 John 1:9

Again, if we do not abide in the doctrine of Christ we do not have God. Abide means to continue in.

Yes, but this is referring to a particular heresy, namely a rejection of the essential doctrine of Christ. John is referring to the Gnostic heresy that denies the physical appearance of Christ. He is showing how to spot a "wolf in sheep's clothing" or rather, how to spot a false teacher. Those that deny the essential, defining elements of the Christian faith are those who do not abide in the doctrine of Christ. He is not referring to those who commit this or that sin. Essentially, you are misusing the text to support your legalism.

It's not that I am "peddling a false gospel based upon human works and not upon the shed blood and work of Christ on the cross", it's that you want to follow a religion where most of the bible is ignored to support a watered down version of what the bible actually teaches.

No, I simply reject a false gospel of humanism that uses man's works as a means of salvation as opposed to resting on the full-sufficiency of God's grace. I have not watered anything down. Faith is Christ does not amount to watering anything down. It simply puts salvation back in perspective. Works based systems like yours inflates the religious vanity of man, and fills him with the pride that makes him feel that his personal holiness makes Him worthy of heaven. Biblical, genuine Christianity puts the focus on Jesus and not on man's works.

Jesus said, "If you love me keep my commandments". We also see scriptures that say that if we do not keep the commandments that we will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Look at those words of Jesus. Our works are produced by our love of Christ. It is salvation that produces the heart that longs to please God. The litmus test of a genuine Christian is a heart to serve and please God. If we truly love him, if our salvation is real, it will be borne out in how we live. Works are the procut of salvation, not the means of holding on to it.

There is nothing in the Bible to support the ridiculous idea that works keep us saved. It require a lot of theological gymnastics to get to that view.

Jesus bore everything it takes to send a man to hell. He bore our pain, carried our sorrows; He was bruised for our iniquities and pierced for our transgressions; the chastisement of our peace was upon Him. He has borne everything tit takes to send a man to hell, and He did it so we would not have to. Those who cannot believe that simple truth, cannot embrace the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[asper]

Hi everyone, I read through most of the posts and thought I would jump in and give my opinions. Like it or not.

One thing I noticed is the attempt of the works crowd to make works of faith = the works of the law.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Just curious, which law was that again?

Does it say anything about keeping the law. I don

Edited June 11, 2008 by asper

[deut31:12]

Shiloh

Your works are, or should be the outgrowth of salvation, not the means of either procuring it or maintaining it. Your works could not get you to God, and they are certainly not able to keep you there.

I agree with you that there are no works that we get us to God. Our reconciliation back to God through the death of Jesus is a free gift that warrants nothing from man to do, but we are still commanded to do the will of God by keeping the commandments of Jesus through the New Testament scriptures and if we don't we will forfeit our place in heave. This is what the OP was trying to convey. Paul teaches us this and gives us many accounts of this throughout the scriptures.

It doesn't take gymnastics of the scriptures to see or understand this. All it takes is a mindset that you are portraying to ignore, justify away, or contradict some of the scriptures to support your theory.

Here is one more of the scriptures that Paul gave us that we are supposed to be doing as Christians that actually do have consequences:

Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: - Colossians 3:2-6

The will of God and works that we are told to do is our mortifying of our members on this earth.

According to you a Christian is set through just their faith until death or Jesus comes back, What you are either excluding or ignoring is that while we are still present on this earth we are still supposed to do what the scriptures tell us to do or there is a recompense for not doing them. These are what are called "works". The don't have the power to save us, but there is a recompense for not upholding them. Our works are not done in or out of pride, nor to be seen of men. We are doing what is told of us to do by God through the scriptures.

There are plenty of scriptures that tell us what will happen if these sins are not repented from in our lives. I will post if you want me to, but they cannot be justified away as to being about a false teacher or anything else.

No, I simply reject a false gospel of humanism that uses man's works as a means of salvation as opposed to resting on the full-sufficiency of God's grace. I have not watered anything down. Faith is Christ does not amount to watering anything down. It simply puts salvation back in perspective. Works based systems like yours inflates the religious vanity of man, and fills him with the pride that makes him feel that his personal holiness makes Him worthy of heaven. Biblical, genuine Christianity puts the focus on Jesus and not on man's works.

This answer is your own spin on this because that is how you perceive it. I have never given a hint as to supporting this answer you gave. You must personally see doing the works and will of God as something to garner pride from. I don't. In doing the will and works of God, this is the mindset I have:

But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. - Luke 17:7-10

Please tell me how we can take pride in repenting from our sins? What pride do I have to take from God when through the strength of God I overcome my sins and mortify the deeds of my flesh? I get on my hands and knees and thank God that he counted me worthy to come before him and help me overcome all things and hopefully be able to say what Paul did here:

For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. - 2 Timothy 4:6-8

When we mortify our deeds on this earth we are working out our salvation, fighting the good fight, and showing our faith by these works.

[deut31:12]

HI deut 31:12,

the commanments that Jesus was referring to you will find in Mark 12 :2 -31. I'm afraid that Shiloh is right and you are wrong.

The commandments that Jesus were referring to are described throughout the entire New Testament. When we do what we are told not to do and/or don't do what we are told to do we sin. When we commit lie to people, steal from them, murder, curse, commit adultery, envy, commit idolatry, etc. we sin.

The scriptures that you gave are defined right here:

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. - Romans 13:8-10

The law is that we love God and our neighbors by not committing these sins against them.

What James is referring about works, is that people will judge you by what you do, after you are saved. Christ has already judged you and has accepted you. Who cares what others think of. If Jesus says your faith has saved you, then you are saved. You do not have run all over the place and trying to prove to all and sundry, by witnessing to everyone you meet or doing great deeds.

You are correct that people with judge you after you become Christians. So will God. What is being missed is that our lives are supposed to reflect Christianity after the manner in which the scriptures tells us to do. So, if we say that we are Christians, but are drunkards, liars, etc., both the world and God will judge us.

Even as Christians we will be judged by God for our actions according to what we do on this earth.

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. - 1 Peter 4:17-19

The church is the house of God and judgment will begin with us first. According to Shiloh God has already judged us, but according to scripture God is judging us everyday to whether we will remain faithful to God and the gospel through obedience.

As Christians we walk before other men to glorify God by our deeds that reflect the keeping of the commandments. That is why the world hate religious hypocrites. We walk before God as we are the servants of God doing the duty that he gave us to do while we are on the earth as Christians. James goes as far to say that if we say to people we are Christians and have faith in God we show it by our works. What people are defining incorrectly are what works are. When we become Christians we put away the deeds of the flesh that are constituted as sins through the scriptures. That is how we define our faith in God, that we put away and repent of our sins and do his will.

What people are gotten away from and stopped believing is that there is a recompense for not doing these things as Christians. Man scriptures tell us that those who still walk after the lusts of the flesh will not inherit th kingdom of God and Christ.

Read Rom 10: 9-10. and Eph 2:8-9...

I have read these scriptures and both understand and believe them, but today many are building their faith in God on just these two passages alone. It's like you have a 100 piece puzzle that you are trying to finish with just 2 pieces. When you do that you justify all of the other scriptures away. You have to take the two that you gave me and add it to all the other scriptures that Jesus gave us to follow also.

Jesus also said to, "Work out your own salvation in fear and trembling", but you are using Romans and Eph. to counter it.

Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved", but you are using Romans and Eph. to counter it.

Jesus said, "Repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins", but you are using Romans and Eph. to counter it.

Jesus said many other things, but you are using Romans and Eph. to counter them.

Look at this verse and think really hard on it as to what it is saying:

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. - Matthew 4:4

If man lives by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God and the New Testament is ever word that proceeded out of his mouth then why would we base salvation on just 2 passages?