The Gospels and Paul

[exrockstar]

We are awarded according to our deeds - true.

But salvation is separate from these.

If we think of going to Heaven as a reward, then we have a screwed up idea of why Jesus died.

totally agree.

salvation and rewards are two different subjects.

[Guest]

Amen!

[Guest shiloh357]

I really didn't think i'd have to be specific, as it seems to be [prevalent throughout Jesus' moral teachings, but the one that prompted this question is Mathew 6:1-Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.

this seems to imply that our rewards (or lack thereof) are based upon our actions.

Rewards are always based on actions. It is only our salvation that is by grace through faith and not by works. It is not a reward or a prize. Salvation is a free gift. (Rom. 6:23)

Rewards have nothing to do with Sola Fide, or "works-based righteousness."

[WayneB]

I really didn't think i'd have to be specific, as it seems to be [prevalent throughout Jesus' moral teachings, but the one that prompted this question is Mathew 6:1-Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.

this seems to imply that our rewards (or lack thereof) are based upon our actions.

Context.

Matthew 5 through 7 is Jesus' Sermon on the Mount. He also told us to be PERFECT like our Father in heaven. He spoke these words at the beginning of His earthly ministry and in doing so, He was making it clear. There is NO righteousness apart from HIM and He was laying the groundwork for His sacrifice at Calvary, preparing His followers so that one day, they would understand why it had to take place.

Also, Hebrews 10:14 tells us, "For by a single sacrifice he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." In other words, the followers of Jesus are made perfect by Christ's sacrifice on Calvary, not through any effort we perform on our own behalf.

One of the biggest obstacles the early church had to overcome was the idea that man could, through his own efforts, earn merit and favor with God. The dominant Jewish teaching of the day dictated every aspect of life in order to be and remain holy.

[Openly Curious]

When reading through the Gospels, it seems clear that there is some sort of Works-Righteousness going on there. It's not until Paul (which was admittedly written before the Gospels) that we see Sola Fide language.

How do you explain this tension?

Who admittedly told you that Paul's writings were written before the gospels?

Now there is no proof of this claim, but I am assuming that you are refering to the book of Galations.

It is so simple that we can't grasp it. Righteous comes by faith and faith alone and that faith rest in the cross in which Jesus died for the sins of man and because righteous is imputed unto us then it's only in the cross we can glory for what Christ did on our behalf and there is no work that can make us more righteous before God only the blood. The OT could never make one righteous through works because there was not a law given to make one righteous if there were then they would have followed and obeyed that law and made righteous but the law couldn't do this. It came only in the cross and the blood that was shed there of our Saviour Jesus Christ who washed us clean within sprinkling our conscious from dead works to serve the living God.

OC

[Jonny_NZ]

There is certainly a lot of work that's been done in this area.

This is an interesting discussion on the topic: http://www.thepaulpage.com/Conversation.html

This is quite nice too: http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Justifi...lical_Basis.pdf

As are more than a few of the pages at www.ntwrightpage.com

[EricH]

Maybe if you could provide an example of where you sense thie tension, we could address it specifically

[WillingToDie]

I apologize for my absence, I...needed a break.

When reading through the Gospels, it seems clear that there is some sort of Works-Righteousness going on there. It's not until Paul (which was admittedly written before the Gospels) that we see Sola Fide language.

How do you explain this tension?

Who admittedly told you that Paul's writings were written before the gospels?

Now there is no proof of this claim, but I am assuming that you are refering to the book of Galations.

It is so simple that we can't grasp it. Righteous comes by faith and faith alone and that faith rest in the cross in which Jesus died for the sins of man and because righteous is imputed unto us then it's only in the cross we can glory for what Christ did on our behalf and there is no work that can make us more righteous before God only the blood. The OT could never make one righteous through works because there was not a law given to make one righteous if there were then they would have followed and obeyed that law and made righteous but the law couldn't do this. It came only in the cross and the blood that was shed there of our Saviour Jesus Christ who washed us clean within sprinkling our conscious from dead works to serve the living God.

OC

It's actually rather simple: the Gospels were likely written between 70 CE and 90 CE. Paul was dead by this point. It follows that Paul wrote his letters before the Gospels were written.

Maybe if you could provide an example of where you sense thie tension, we could address it specifically

Perhaps a better example is when Jesus says that it is better to say, cut off your hand than to burn in hell. Of course there is the surface implication that it is because of our sins that we are punished. However, there also seems to be the implication that one is able to avoid sinning and therefore Hell.

-edit- Johnny, thank you for the links. I will take a look at the when I get a chance.

[EricH]

Maybe if you could provide an example of where you sense thie tension, we could address it specifically

Perhaps a better example is when Jesus says that it is better to say, cut off your hand than to burn in hell. Of course there is the surface implication that it is because of our sins that we are punished. However, there also seems to be the implication that one is able to avoid sinning and therefore Hell.

I don't see any contradiction between Paul and Jesus here. Both would acknowledge the seriousness of sin. Paul made some pretty bold statements about people who engaged in particular sinful behavior being unable to inherit the kingdom of God. Attempting to live a lifestyle that is free from sin and how one is saved are 2 different topics.

[Smalcald]

I think that scripture is harmonious. However I also think we see numerous instances of what I would call a duality for us to work out. We are saved by grace alone, yet our actions are important, they mean something we must reconcile this. But this to me is actually very realistic, our life our world has this dualism about it. Paul writes that we are saved by faith alone not dependant on anything else, he then goes on in the same book to say, but if you live like this and in this way you will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. The duality at work.

As far as behavior Christ obviously was looking at it in a new and different way; in His teachings the heart what we really believe what we really want to do is what is important, not what we are ordered to do and do begrudgingly as a slave who fears his master, but as a son who wishes to please his Father. These things are not to be done seeking glory or honor for ourselves or our own ego or self righteous feelings. This does harmonize with the concept of faith being all important in leading us and defining us, versus an outward appearance or outward religiosity.

I find it really interesting it makes sense.

We all know in our heart that God wants us to live in a Holy way; we also all know that we don't have the ability to do that, yet we try because we want to please Him.