Sabbath

[Guest yod]

OK...why didn't you just say so in the first place?

I thought you were saying that gentiles become jewish by faith in Messiah.

[Russell]

Shorten your posts and I'll read it.

Yep and maybe paragraph them as well so we all can read them.

Blessings brother

Just a little English lesson here

[AllforJesustheLord]

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel. Romans 9:8 That is they which are the children of the flesh(sins), these (are) not the children of Eloheem(God), but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." The Promise are those who believe in Jesus Christ in what ever language, and who obey Him. No matter who they are, they are Israel in the spiritual, whether they are Jews(Judah) in the natural, or not, is not the issue. Not right now anyways.

I am saying those who are of God right now they are the children of God, and not according to the flesh, whether any tribe of Israel, or the nations, we are spiritually Judah. Hosea 1:9 Then said (God), Call his name Loammi, for you (are) not my people, and I will not be ELoHeCeM(your God)." Please notice here this speaks of the time of MeSHiaCH, the first time He comes, ELoHeeM says those in the natural are not His people anymore. Those who are saved by The MeSHiaCH, Ha YaH ELoHeeM(The Lord God), as The Scripture says, they are the tribe of Judah now. For only those who are saved by YeHuDaH are saved, and Ha MeSHiaCH comes from YeHuDaH, those through Him are we saved, set free from our sins, He has blessed us in turning all who believe away from iniquity. Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of YiSRayL(Israel), shall be as the sand of the sea, which can not be measured, nor numbered, and it shall come to pass, in the place where it was said unto them, You not my people, it shall be said unto them, (You are) the sons of The Living God." Now this scripture shows where we left off, and then when Ha YeHuSHua MeSHiaCH HaYaH ELoHeeM, comes back He will make it so that YiSRaayL in the natural believe in Him, and then they shall be called ...The sons of The Living ELoHaY(God). So we can see what this means. Romans 2:28-29 "For not is a Jew(Judah) the apparent, nor the apparent in flesh, circumcision, the but in private (a) Jew(Judah) is, and circumcision of heart, in spirit, not in letter, of whom the praise not from men, but from God." Someone right now is of Judah if they believe in Christ, and follow Him, no matter who they are, Israel, or not. In the future God will go back again to the natural understanding of who Israel is, in the sense that they will believe in YaHshua MeSHiaCH(Jesus Christ), and follow Him, and He will teach new teachings, which are not yet taught to be done. They will be natural YiSRayL(Israel). Example is in Ezekiel last chapters, Isaiah last chapter, Zechariah last chapters. That hurt my feelings what the one person said, about having an english lesson, you see, know this Romans 1:25 ...the foolishness of ELoHeeM(God) is wiser then men, and the weakness of ELoHaY(God) is stronger then men." You see God is speaking not me, so yes you mean to insult me, but you show friendship with the world, through your sin, and no one who is a friend of the world has eternal life abiding in him. SHaLoM, (wellness in all areas) may you be preserved blameless in spirit, soul, and body, unto YaHSHua MeSHiaCH(Jesus Christ's) coming.

[Guest yod]

Seriously man...break it up into readable paragraphse please....

I only got this far....

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel. Romans 9:8 That is they which are the children of the flesh(sins), these (are) not the children of Eloheem(God), but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." The Promise are those who believe in Jesus Christ in what ever language, and who obey Him. No matter who they are, they are Israel in the spiritual,

Let's talk about that sentence in bold. "No matter who they are" is how you are applying it but that is not what the verse is saying. You can probably apply it that way and we'd be in agreement but that is not the correct interpretation.

Paul IS speaking about Israel in the flesh here. Not the gentiles....

He's saying that the only jews who are of Israel are those who are circumcised in their hearts...the ones who have the faith of Abraham and therefor children of the promised Messiah; Yeshua.

The concept of gentiles becoming "spiritual Israel" is not a biblical one. Yes, I have heard it taught many times so I began studying to look for it for myself and it's just not there. It requires a half-verse here to be joined to another 1/4 verse there and twisted together with a 1/3 verse from somewhere else to make it hold together into an actual doctrine.

The closest case one could make is in the end of Galatians where Paul "seems" to indicate that all believers are included (even that make Israel pre-eminent) in the "ISRAEL OF GOD"

Every other case I've heard has been found wanting.

If you would like to talk about...please take one passage of scripture at a time and explain in readable paragraphs (hopefully not half a page of them) and we'll see what it says in the context of the verses given and I think you will agree with me when we're done.

The church is the church. Israel is Israel. Israel can be in the church and the church can be in Israel...but they are two different entitys working together to accomplish God's purposes in the Earth.

Jew and Gentile...[Echad Moshiach)

One in Messiah.

[Russell]

Seriously man...break it up into readable paragraphse please....

I only got this far....

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel. Romans 9:8 That is they which are the children of the flesh(sins), these (are) not the children of Eloheem(God), but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." The Promise are those who believe in Jesus Christ in what ever language, and who obey Him. No matter who they are, they are Israel in the spiritual,

English and writing were not his best subjects yod.

Maybe he's excellant at maths.

[AllforJesustheLord]

No basically my purpose on earth is to help, and love people, although I like the medical field, because I can do that very much, and see my reward, of helping, and loving people. I am sorry if I can not using English in the proper way, but I am not without knowledge, as the apostle Paul talked about himself, I am similiar. Now to continue, even though we have a new way, Christ has shown that different people He can, and does call to different people groups, so all can be saved, and come to the knowledge of the Truth, so all may be blessed in knowing Christ, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings. These are all blessings so we may be free from iniquity. So, some go to India, some to China, some to Israel, some to London, some to Mexico, some to Russia, some to everyother place on the earth. God does this, and the people because of Love, in realizing they are free from all customs of the world, yet they choose to serve all, by becoming like them. This is awesome. Now as God has choosen, and as He will continue to do so in His will, some will go to Israel, now they are to become like those who do the different areas of Israel, and they can do that continually as God wants to have mercy, it may even be that a person who is a believer, one of the two witnesses, will lead people into setting up the Temple again, and then eventually many in that area will kill the two witnesses, in the city spiritually known as sodom, and Egypt, the place our Lord was killed also. Then after this the great tribulation is about over, and The anointed one will come back, and set up His kingdom, in ruling power, chastizement, and justice. Please notice Jerusalem is not going to be God's city until Christ comes back. Now we may if ELoheem wants us to do the different areas to the extent ELoheem instructs us, but the whole time we will realize we are not saved, by the law of Moses, we are saved, by The Messiah, and we do the different areas of the Torah(law), of Moshe(Moses) so the different tribes of Israel in the natural, will become Israel in the spiritual. Look who sets up the temple in Zechariah, one of the two witnesses. Now we can know the antichrist will go to the temple and declare himself God their. So before Meshiach comes back this setting up of the temple must happen, but we are still to follow Meshiach(Christ) were ever He goes, and do what He instructs us to do, sometimes going against the Older Covenant, because Christ showed He did that sometimes. I can let you know where if you want. Christ was continuing with the prophesying, and preaching of the prophets.

Edited May 16, 2004 by AllforJesustheLord

[AllforJesustheLord]

I will continue to do more research, yet I did do some, and for the most part in the bible, Dan was disobedient just like the other tribes. I am considering that the part in Revelation which has Manasseh should have Dan instead, because Joseph can mean both tribes, Ephraim, and Manasseh, and since the Words are in God's Older Testament prophet Ezekiel, that shows His Words where never lost, because they are there, He said His words would last past the earth. Mark 13:31 Heaven, and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. So I am thinking that someone changed that one Word in Revelation, but His Word in that instance has always been around so, His Word was never lost, as in the requirement of Mark 13:31, for all scriptures. Ezekiel is talking about the 1,000 year reign. So, also Revelation 7:4-8 is speaking of those tribes, in Ezekiel 48 what do you think?

[AllforJesustheLord]

Refering to my last post, But Dan became the very type of evil-doing. He was placed to the north (Num. ii. 25), this being the region of darkness and evil (Jer. i. 14), because of his idolatry which wrapped the world in darkness (Num. R. ii.). Still further goes a tradition which identifies the serpent and the lion (Gen. xlix. 17 and Deut. xxxiii. 22). I just wanted to say, Dan is talked about being like a serpent, and a lion, but I wanted to say, Christ Himself is shown to be like a serpent, and a lion, Moses lifted up the staff with a serpent on it so that when the children of Israel looked on that they were healed, made whole, and His staff also turned into a serpent, and Jesus Christ is the lion of the tribe of Judah. You see these terms can mean good, and/or bad, it just depends how they are used.

[AllforJesustheLord]

Can someone give me, what they believe about Revelation 7:4-8, and Ezekiel 48, should we look at the Older Testament, as say that Revelation is missing Dan, so then should be put in Dan, as is in Ezekiel, in other words did someone mess up the Scripture in Revelation 7:4-8, should we let Joseph mean both Ephraim, and Mannasseh, in Rev. as the last area of Ezekiel 48 makes Joseph, or should we think. Ezekiel is wrong, and leave Revelation the way it is. In Rev. 7:4-8 Dan is missing, in Ezekiel 48 Dan is in those scriptures in both areas, and that speaks of the 1,000 year reign. I am concerned about this please give input.

[AllforJesustheLord]

Please will someone help me in understanding these scriptures which are in my last post?