word-faith-movement.

[nebula]

The whole "you are god" thing is a point of confusion, IMO.

John 10:34 - Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods" '?

Now what does this mean?

It's in the Scripture, so it can't be wrong, nor should it be glossed over because it seems contrary to our theology.

Ge 1:26, 27 - Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

And what does this mean?

Sometimes in our trying to sort through weird stuff like this, we tend to piece them together and explain them in ways that don't exactly wash right.

Now I am sure a bunch of you can throw out specific quotes and whatnot to decry that we should have no grace on these preachers over their statements. But sometimes I wonder if our frail attempts at understanding some of these concepts (that are best understood from the eastern Hebraic mindset, not the Western mindset anyway) are just that - frail attempts.

At least they attempted to make sense of this. Most Christians try to pretend the passage isn't there.....

[HisMindinme]

The whole "you are god" thing is a point of confusion, IMO.

John 10:34 - Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods" '?

Now what does this mean?

It's in the Scripture, so it can't be wrong, nor should it be glossed over because it seems contrary to our theology.

Jesus is quoting Psa 82. To understand it requires understanding scripture leading up to it.

Joh 10:7 Then Jesus again said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you that I am the door of the sheep.

Here, Jesus is pointing at His status: He is The Door for the sheep (an allegorical allusion to I am THE WAY). There are sheep and goats. The sheep are the Elect, those being and who will be saved in the final judgement. The goats are those who will not be saved on the final Day of the Lord. Jesus says it Himself:

Joh 10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in, and will go out, and will find pasture.

The opposite is: "If anyone FAILS to enter through Me, will NOT be saved, and will NOT go in, and will NOT go out, and will NOT find pasture." Again, He says:

Joh 10:11 I am the Good Shepherd! The Good Shepherd lays down His life on behalf of the sheep.

So, Jesus is A) The Door of the Sheep (-vs- thieves and robbers) and B) The Good Shepherd (-vs- hirlings).

Then, the Lord splits Jews and Gentiles (remember He is speaking strictly here to an audience of Jews):

Joh 10:16 And I have other sheep which are not of this fold. I must also lead those, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock, one Shepherd.

Jesus is foretelling the engrafting of the Gentiles into His Word, His offer of Salvation to ALL, where the distinction of Jew and Gentile is erased and all are one with Him, with the Father, with the Spirit. Remember, in the eyes of the Jews, the Gentiles were lost unless they converted to being a Jew. What they really meant was, "convert to THIER Jewish traditions" Jesus flatly rejects a "Jew outwardly" and points to one "inwardly" (circumcision of the heart by the Spirit of God in us). Thus, Jesus is telling the truth: He's pointing out how Jews and Gentiles will be grafted together to ONE people, ONE flock, with ONE Shepherd, and so on. Also note: This is a flat denial of the Mormon nonsense. This is not about lost tribes and other stupidity that Mormons and others try to stick in here.

Now comes the reaction of the Jews to what Jesus has said so far:

Joh 10:19 Then a division occurred again among the Jews, because of these words.

The Jews were divided because Jesus alluded to His stature -- equality with God. A little later on, they corner Him in a more "formal" setting:

Joh 10:23 And Jesus was walking in the temple, in Solomon's Porch.

Of course, this is not an accident. It is here, the Jews confront Jesus again with a very specific question and accusation. Note: It is not simply a question, but an accusation. Jesus is not just answering a question, but putting up evidence to support an assertion about Himself: I AM.

Joh 10:24 Then the Jews encircled Him and said to Him, How long do you make us doubt? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.

The Jews want a direct answer. Jesus answers:

Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and you did not believe. The works which I do in the name of My Father, these bear witness about Me.

First -- I told you, and you did not believe.

Second -- The works witness about Me.

Third -- Joh 10:26 But you do not believe for you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

Bingo -- His sheep hear His voice. The word "hear" is understand and respond in obedience and integrity. The Jews are not there to respond with obedience, but to further establish their own power and control: to feed the lusts of their flesh with their thoughts, traditions and ways. They are living their own minds, own thoughts and own emotions for the purpose of feeding their flesh. Jesus knows this because of how they respond (accusation, division, contentions -- works of the flesh). Thus, these questioning Him are NOT His sheep. Hold on to that thought.

Joh 10:28 And I give eternal life to them, and they shall not perish to the age, never! And not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.

Joh 10:29 My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck out of My Father's hand.

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are One!

POW! Right in the kisser! Jesus makes grand distinction between Himself and the Jews. You see, the Jews held themselves in moral equality with God because of their religious traditions and beliefs. Jesus, on the other hand, went a step above and equated Himself with God the Father directly and said, "I AM." The response of the Jews says how they clearly understand this:

Joh 10:31 Then again the Jews took up stones, that they might stone Him.

Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, I showed you many good works from My Father. For which work of them do you stone Me?

Joh 10:33 The Jews answered Him, saying, We do not stone You concerning a good work, but concerning blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself God.

Take very special care and note of the last sentence: Here is the accusation I wrote of above: "You, being a man, make Yourself God." See the accusation: "... make Yourself God."

The question is this: Does He A) make Himself God -OR- B) Claim equality with God? (I AM)??? Jesus NEVER claims A), but plainly states B) I AM.

So, what makes this an important distinction?

When Jesus cites Ps 82:6, He establishes the mode of argument by comparing two things: if scripture was not in error calling mortals "gods" (Ps 82:6), then neither is there error in calling the One whom God consecrated and sent into the world "the Son of God" (10:35-36).

Jesus' reference to "Son of God" in 10:36 does not weaken the argument by reducing the claim from

[AnotherTraveler]

Much of the WoF movement teachings are wrong from the heart. The scripture is true, but Peter warned us of those that would twist the scriptures...

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

2 Peter 3:15-17 (KJV)

The preaching of and chasing after wealth as though if you were spiritual you would certainly be rich is very evil.

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

1 Tim 6:3-12 (KJV)

If we set our heart on the things of this world, sure we might gain the world, but at what price?

Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart upon them.

Psalms 62:10 (KJV)

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Col 3:1-2 (KJV)