The authority of the Word of God

[Jorge S]

The problem is that I am not advocating a "figurative" approach at all. I would also posit that believing the that "day" mentioned is not 24 hours, but a longer period of time is not a "figurative" approach either.

I'm missing the point entirely. Perhaps I'll understand better if you provide an exegetical analysis for your position.

[Jorge S]

and I take great offense that you assume that I have a naturalistic agenda, ...

I'm very sorry for the misunderstanding and I assure you there was no intention to accuse you of such a thing. I cannot possibly blame you for claims which are not originally yours. I had in mind the militant atheistic position that denies God of His Glorious Creation for the sake of an exclusively naturalistic explanation.

two yes or no questions for you...

1. Does the word "day" have more than one meaning?

2. Show me where the Bible says the days of creation were 24 hours.

1. Yes.

2. Nowhere.

And since you brought it up, how was there solar days without the sun?

The sun is not the only source of light.

and who revealed this "truth" to you?

The Bible.

[Jorge S]

Would it not be more logical to take the two chapters as a whole and interpret both of the based on what is said in both of them?

By the way, I forgot to comment on this. I've read about it some time ago from different sources which are not readily available in my library at present.

Gen 1 is a summary of the entire process of Creation while Gen 2 concentrates a particular events of Day 6. Some have argued that the first chapter is God's account while the second may represent Adam's perspective about things affecting him more closely.

Due to similarities with extant clay tablets from the Moses period in nearby geographical locations (Ugarit?), and in view that the division of the Bible in chapters with numbered verses were late additions, the Toledoth hypothesis was born. It is characterized by the closing statement 'these are the generations of...' -which can be seen at other places in Genesis- as the appropriate chapter ends.

From that point of view Chapter 1 properly ends with Gen 2.4 and not with 1.31, thus becoming a conclusion to the events narrated above

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created in the day that Jehovah God made the earth and the heavens.

It sounds interesting.

[mikerunk]

I think there lot of factors that we must take in to account when it comes to creation. The first things is you can't ignore science no matter how hard you try you simply can't throw it out the window. So the question is how does science and faith fit together. They actually fit more then most people are willing to admit. It's a matter of putting things in the proper prospective.

Science has proven about how old the world is, and how far back life goes on this planet. Is it an exact science, no but close enough that it can not be dismissed. We know that earth is about 4.6 Billion years old give or take, I would actually venture to guess it to be more like 6 billion years old and I'll tell you why in minute. This proven through various means, is it exact, no but close enough. If we went based on bible time tables and the fact that God created the earth in 6 days (thats on 24 hour period) we have a difference between what the bible says and what science says, so becomes which is right. Christians will always side with God and say that God created everything in 6 days and thus means science is wrong. Science will say that Christians are wrong because they have facts to back up there claims. So the struggle to prove there belief continues.

However if we change are perception and say that 6 days to God is 4.6 billion years old then it would actually put it in the same time frame as how old Science says the earth is. The reason I said that I think it closer to 6 billion years is because its not an exact science, we believe the world to be abotu 4.6 billion years old. However because I believe in the bible and am not so willing to dismiss sciecne I believe it to be more around 6 billion years, each billion years would come to about a day in the eyes of god. This would sink both science and faith together. So that takes care of the first part which is time frame.

The next part is the creation of man and life on this planet, this is a tuff one. The truth is I have no answers on this. Science has shows some evidence that can not be ignored however it doesn't tell use the full picture. At the same time those evidence don't fit with what the bibles says. Till more evidence can be uncovered and give use a clear picture of how life begin it remains unresolved. So my out look on this is that God created life and that is all I need to know at this point. When he see fit to show use how he went about doing it then so be it, till then all we need to know is that he did creat life.

I know thats not a good answer but it is the only one I can come up with. I am not gone say I have all the answers, and I can't even to begin to fathom how are lord thinks or works. There are somethings we can not explain through science at this point. However that does not mean that there isn't a scientific method behind the creation of the universe. In fact to believe that God just snapped his fingure and formed the universe is sort of idiotic in it self and takes away from how intellegent God is.

Science gives use a brief window in to the design of are creators work. I believe that science and faith fit together more then most people realize. I believe that all things were created by God. I believe that Science can give use a window in to that creation and make use love God that much more. I also believe that Science doesn't have all the answers at the moment, and it is at such times that we must accept that it is God creation and that we are not meant to understand certain things at this moment in time. Another words no matter how you roll the dice everything comes back to God.

I'm not a perfect person, I'm not a overly religious person, I don't have all the answers. I only know certain things, God exist his finger prints are all over the place, and some of those finger prints can be found through Science. I only know that I love God because when I see the universe around me and how complex it is and I can't help but feel how Awsome God is. What makes God that much more awsome is that he is willing to show use his creation and show use facts about his creation, that makes him even more awsome.

So that is my take on the subject.

[pokemaughan]

Regardless of opinions, I think the point of this topic has been blown into pieces.

24 hours, 24 billion-kajillion-septillion years, whatever. The Bible is what it is, you can't force someone to see it the way you do. Some of you may like arguing, but if that be the case, I'd take it to PMs. What do you think the nonbelievers are doing as they read this? Laughing, if I had to guess. Haha, even the believers can't figure out what they're doing. What faith they have!

Granted this is only a suggestion... but I hate to see my brothers and sisters bicker over such things.

The Word of God is awesome. It's the only book that can scare me, make me feel safe, make me happy, and make me feel loved. That in itself shows its authority. But nonetheless, even the nonbelievers have to admit that the Bible and all it's books are amazingly done. No contradictions, even though it was written over more generations than I care to imagine. The moral 'code' seems to add up to how we feel we should act and behave. Everything represented in the Book can only be denied by those who trust in their own feeble understanding. Imagine that! Those who worship their own minds... that's like a dog making theories about how he came to live in his owner's house. "Well there was this explosion... and then the house formed... and there was a little dust bunny... and over time it evolved into a dog... and here I am!" Imagine how the Owner of our house must feel!

"Father forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

Edited November 2, 2008 by pokemaughan

[pokemaughan]

Is this supposed to be the fundamentalist idea of science? No wonder you have no clue.

It was supposed to be a caricature of the big bang and evolution. I know there's a lot more to your religion, but that's the way I see it.

I have plenty of a clue through the Bible and through prayer to my Lord.

[pokemaughan]

My "religion"? I am assuming that you mean evolution. Evolution is NOT a religion. It is a scientific theory. Please try to understand that. Perhaps your lack of understanding is the reason you feel compelled to resort to caricature.

I percieve one way, you percieve the other, but in the end, the truth wins out.

[pokemaughan]

Actually, my best guess would be that you have limited information. It is not a question of perception, it is a question of knowledge.

All the knowledge that man could throw at me wouldn't change a thing. It's insufficient and worldly- I get my wisdom from God and His followers.

[pokemaughan]

Nothing like a closed mind.

Worldly knowledge is what---somehow worthless? Use a computer, drive a car, fly in a plane, got a cell phone, taken meds? Worldly knowledge provided you with all those things.

I mean in the context of trying to explain where we came from. Leave a scientist to himself and he'll try to explain absolutely everything he sees, whether he's right or not.

[pokemaughan]

I think I am rather mystefied by your position. Science tries to make sense of the real world. And that is bad, why???

Science is great! That is, until it tries to contradict the truth. That's why we find ourselves arguing- you see science as truth, I know God as truth. No matter of club-to-the-head statements will change that.