seekeratthesea Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 It all depends on how you measure things The statement was wars and rumour of wars How about objectively....less deaths from military battles, less battles, less wars. A LOT of people find it hard to believe at first but at least they're open to the idea and GLAD when objective analysis bears out the truth. How about measuring it without a pre existing desire to find MORE wars just so people can then be right about about being near to the end times? And how do you measure objectively "Rumours of Wars"? You measure it without a pre-existing intent to find MORE "rumours of wars" just because people who study such things almost always tend to believe the "end" is just around the corner, almost always happening within their own lifespans. I don't think that's coincidence. End times studies are intriguing and I think those who are most attracted to end time scenarios aren't getting into those studies because they think the end times are a long ways off. I think they're intrigued by the end times happening in their own lifetimes and end up seeing their interpretations through their own distorted prism, tending to "find what they want to find. You measure it with a pre-existing knowledge that these "rumours of wars" have ALWAYS been a sad part of human history, spiking and declining throughout history. You measure it with a knowledge that even the current decline might be temporary. But since it is declining, there's no more reason to believe we're necessarily in the end times now than we were a thousand years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 It all depends on how you measure things The statement was wars and rumour of wars How about objectively....less deaths from military battles, less battles, less wars. A LOT of people find it hard to believe at first but at least they're open to the idea and GLAD when objective analysis bears out the truth. How about measuring it without a pre existing desire to find MORE wars just so people can then be right about about being near to the end times? interesting but i, on the other hand, would get depressed, not glad if this objective analysis bears out the truth. my luck, it probably will. i'm actually looking forward to the new heavens and the new earth. when nothing will hurt or destroy on God's holy mountain. when there will be no poverty, no killing, not injustices or oppressions of any kind. that's what we're looking forward to, not the wars themselves but to the end of all war. Looking forward to it is good. Imagining that we're in the end times when there is no sensible reason is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry 2 Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 791 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 205 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2008 There are articles out there about the decline or war both in terms of the number of casualties AND the total number of wars being fought. Something that I've noticed, less frequent, and less body counts...not to trivialize what's currently going on but the numbers are just smaller. So how does the decline of war/end times theology juxtapose against the "wars and rumors of war" which were actually more frequent in the past than now? I have a feeling I'm putting my feet in the fire here because my experience with end times theologists is that they don't like to give up their notions of the end being just around the corner...... Response by larry2 - Your oberservations of the end times is correct concerning wars decreasing in size and multitude. Back when in Mark 13:7 we read "And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet." As we appproach the time of the end 1 Thessalonians 5:3 says; "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." It seems to me that due to the decrease in war, people will start thinking of peace and safety, though that will be without God and of their own effforts. Then sudden destruction comes upon them that culminates with the war of Armageddon. In Jesus' name - larry2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 28, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 28, 2008 AFGHANISTAN Taliban losing ground as new government slowly extends control. But independent minded tribes, warlords and drug gangs still stand in the way of peace, prosperity and true national unity. ALGERIA Islamic rebels on the run, but a general uprising looms because of dissatisfaction with the old revolutionaries that refuse to honor election results or share power. ANGOLA Main rebel group (UNITA) defeated, but smaller ones have appeared to fight over oil wealth. BALKANS The Greater Albania Movement is driven by part time Albanian nationalists, full time gangsters and a growing number of Islamic radicals. CENTRAL ASIA Dictators brew rebellion by suppressing democrats and Islamic radicals. CHAD Peace has broken out, for the moment. CHINA The confrontation with Taiwan continues, as do hostilities with neighbors, separatists, dissenters and ancient enemies. China speeds up modernization of its armed forces. COLOMBIA After over three decades, leftist rebels losing support, recruits and territory. CONGO Multiple tribal and political militias, plus an increasing number of bandits, continue to roam the countryside. INDIA-PAKISTAN Kashmir is but one of many rebellions that beset the region. But India and Pakistan have nukes, making escalation a potential catastrophe. Recent peace talks have lowered the possibility of war, but both sides continue an arms race. INDONESIA Separatism, pirates, Islamic terrorists and government corruption create an increasingly volatile situation. IRAN Minority of Islamic conservatives have veto power over the majority of reformers. The supply of peaceful solutions is drying up. After that comes another revolution. Meanwhile, the Islamic conservatives are determined to build nuclear weapons. IRAQ Sunni Arab minority makes peace with the majority Kurds and Shia Arabs. But Sunni Arab Islamic radicals still back terrorism attacks against government and Shia Arabs (who are considered heretics). ISRAEL Jewish and Palestinian radicals continue to confront peacemakers. The Palestinian people got tired of terrorism and are trying to work out a peace deal with Israel. IVORY COAST The north and the south fight over money, religion and power. KOREA After half a century, North Korea continues to destroy its economy to maintain armed forces capable of invading South Korea. KURDISH WAR Kurds continue 5,000 year struggle to form their own country. LIBERIA Chaos, collapse and tired of fighting. MICRONESIA Several "failed states" (countries with populations that cannot govern themselves) are found here. NEPAL Radical communist rebels battle to overthrow a popular monarchy. NIGERIA Too many tribes, too much oil money and too much corruption creates too much violence. POTENTIAL HOT SPOTS Various places where the local situation is warming up and might turn into a war. PHILIPPINES Islamic minority in the south wants it's own country, and expulsion of non-Moslems. Communist rebels in the north fight for social justice and a dictatorship. RUSSIA Rebuilding and reforming the Soviet era armed forces and fighting gangsters and Islamic radicals in Chechnya. RWANDA & BURUNDI War between better organized and more aggressive Tutsis and more numerous Hutu tribes. It's been going on for centuries. SOMALIA A failed state. It was never a country, but a collection of clans and tribes that fight each other constantly over land and other economic issues. Attempting to establish a new government. SRI LANKA Tamil minority (19th century economic migrants from southern India) battle to partition the island. SUDAN Moslems in the north try to suppress separatist tendencies among Christians in the south. Complicated by oil fields in the south, and Moslem government attempts to drive Christians from oil region. Battles over land in the west pit Arab herders against black Sudanese farmers. Both sides are Moslem, but the government is backing the Arabs. THAILAND Moslems in the south have a different religion than most Thais, and are different ethnically as well (they are Malays). Islamic radicalism has arrived, along with an armed effort to create a separate Islamic state among the few million people in the area. UGANDA Religion and tribalism combine to create a persistent rebellion in the north, which is aided by Sudan. WAR ON TERROR International terrorism has created a international backlash and a war unlike any other. http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/wars/articles/20050923.aspx Add Georgia to the list and I don't really see much but escalation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted September 1, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 1, 2008 There are articles out there about the decline or war both in terms of the number of casualties AND the total number of wars being fought. Something that I've noticed, less frequent, and less body counts...not to trivialize what's currently going on but the numbers are just smaller. So how does the decline of war/end times theology juxtapose against the "wars and rumors of war" which were actually more frequent in the past than now? I have a feeling I'm putting my feet in the fire here because my experience with end times theologists is that they don't like to give up their notions of the end being just around the corner...... Response by larry2 - Your oberservations of the end times is correct concerning wars decreasing in size and multitude. Back when in Mark 13:7 we read "And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet." As we appproach the time of the end 1 Thessalonians 5:3 says; "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." It seems to me that due to the decrease in war, people will start thinking of peace and safety, though that will be without God and of their own effforts. Then sudden destruction comes upon them that culminates with the war of Armageddon. In Jesus' name - larry2 But nobody today is saying "peace and safety" either. They point is not that we will never reach the point where that prophecy is imminent, the point is only that for right now, we probably aren't there and that all the current day end of the worlders are likely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted September 1, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 1, 2008 AFGHANISTAN Taliban losing ground as new government slowly extends control. But independent minded tribes, warlords and drug gangs still stand in the way of peace, prosperity and true national unity. ALGERIA Islamic rebels on the run, but a general uprising looms because of dissatisfaction with the old revolutionaries that refuse to honor election results or share power. ANGOLA Main rebel group (UNITA) defeated, but smaller ones have appeared to fight over oil wealth. BALKANS The Greater Albania Movement is driven by part time Albanian nationalists, full time gangsters and a growing number of Islamic radicals. CENTRAL ASIA Dictators brew rebellion by suppressing democrats and Islamic radicals. CHAD Peace has broken out, for the moment. CHINA The confrontation with Taiwan continues, as do hostilities with neighbors, separatists, dissenters and ancient enemies. China speeds up modernization of its armed forces. COLOMBIA After over three decades, leftist rebels losing support, recruits and territory. CONGO Multiple tribal and political militias, plus an increasing number of bandits, continue to roam the countryside. INDIA-PAKISTAN Kashmir is but one of many rebellions that beset the region. But India and Pakistan have nukes, making escalation a potential catastrophe. Recent peace talks have lowered the possibility of war, but both sides continue an arms race. INDONESIA Separatism, pirates, Islamic terrorists and government corruption create an increasingly volatile situation. IRAN Minority of Islamic conservatives have veto power over the majority of reformers. The supply of peaceful solutions is drying up. After that comes another revolution. Meanwhile, the Islamic conservatives are determined to build nuclear weapons. IRAQ Sunni Arab minority makes peace with the majority Kurds and Shia Arabs. But Sunni Arab Islamic radicals still back terrorism attacks against government and Shia Arabs (who are considered heretics). ISRAEL Jewish and Palestinian radicals continue to confront peacemakers. The Palestinian people got tired of terrorism and are trying to work out a peace deal with Israel. IVORY COAST The north and the south fight over money, religion and power. KOREA After half a century, North Korea continues to destroy its economy to maintain armed forces capable of invading South Korea. KURDISH WAR Kurds continue 5,000 year struggle to form their own country. LIBERIA Chaos, collapse and tired of fighting. MICRONESIA Several "failed states" (countries with populations that cannot govern themselves) are found here. NEPAL Radical communist rebels battle to overthrow a popular monarchy. NIGERIA Too many tribes, too much oil money and too much corruption creates too much violence. POTENTIAL HOT SPOTS Various places where the local situation is warming up and might turn into a war. PHILIPPINES Islamic minority in the south wants it's own country, and expulsion of non-Moslems. Communist rebels in the north fight for social justice and a dictatorship. RUSSIA Rebuilding and reforming the Soviet era armed forces and fighting gangsters and Islamic radicals in Chechnya. RWANDA & BURUNDI War between better organized and more aggressive Tutsis and more numerous Hutu tribes. It's been going on for centuries. SOMALIA A failed state. It was never a country, but a collection of clans and tribes that fight each other constantly over land and other economic issues. Attempting to establish a new government. SRI LANKA Tamil minority (19th century economic migrants from southern India) battle to partition the island. SUDAN Moslems in the north try to suppress separatist tendencies among Christians in the south. Complicated by oil fields in the south, and Moslem government attempts to drive Christians from oil region. Battles over land in the west pit Arab herders against black Sudanese farmers. Both sides are Moslem, but the government is backing the Arabs. THAILAND Moslems in the south have a different religion than most Thais, and are different ethnically as well (they are Malays). Islamic radicalism has arrived, along with an armed effort to create a separate Islamic state among the few million people in the area. UGANDA Religion and tribalism combine to create a persistent rebellion in the north, which is aided by Sudan. WAR ON TERROR International terrorism has created a international backlash and a war unlike any other. http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/wars/articles/20050923.aspx Add Georgia to the list and I don't really see much but escalation. Then you're wrong because you could even add more and in an historical sense, it would still be a decline, in size, scope and total death counts. War really HAS declined for now. That may change but to spend time seeking out wars or other bad news in order make people think we're in the end times is a pretty morbid thing to do. There was another guy trying to hustle me into accepting gang wars in Los Angeles as proof of greater number of wars......there quickly comes a point when it becomes obvious that people WANT there to be more war so they can be right about living in the end times. Why not count price wars between gas stations too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 They point is not that we will never reach the point where that prophecy is imminent, the point is only that for right now, we probably aren't there and that all the current day end of the worlders are likely wrong. And if they are, what is that to you and I? How does their being wrong effect our walk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 2, 2008 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,124 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,854 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2008 Your walk should be with an urgency that is is your last day on earth. Be it the end times or a dump truck that you don't see coming down the street, it could be your last day on this earth. End time or not should not change your lifestyle or walk....... but it sure is fun to discuss and look forward to...... and that's not a bad thing either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted September 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Then you're wrong because you could even add more and in an historical sense, it would still be a decline, in size, scope and total death counts. War really HAS declined for now. That may change but to spend time seeking out wars or other bad news in order make people think we're in the end times is a pretty morbid thing to do. There was another guy trying to hustle me into accepting gang wars in Los Angeles as proof of greater number of wars......there quickly comes a point when it becomes obvious that people WANT there to be more war so they can be right about living in the end times. Why not count price wars between gas stations too? I think that is a deflection. Man is hateful and cruel and he kills. War is everywhere and WAR is morbid! It's not wrong to notice it. You don't have to assign an agenda or a judgment of morbidity to those who see it. Jesus has told us to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyLouse Posted September 2, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 268 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/30/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/2004 Share Posted September 2, 2008 It all depends on how you measure things The statement was wars and rumour of wars Concerning Jerusalem: Romans ruled for 600 years. Then, Arab Caliphates ruled for 600 years. Then, the Ottoman Empire ruled for 600 years. Over the past 100 years as God started regathering His people to Jerusalem and especially since 1948, there have been many wars and rumors of wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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