Split from "Salvation"

[OneLight]

Now I'm really confused If someone can die, doesn't that make him mortal?

you ever seen the movie Highlander? they were immortals but they could die under certian circumstances

Scripture, please!

[Guest man]

Now I'm really confused If someone can die, doesn't that make him mortal?

you ever seen the movie Highlander? they were immortals but they could die under certian circumstances

Now I'm beginning to understand.

[Ovedya]

Now I'm really confused If someone can die, doesn't that make him mortal?

you ever seen the movie Highlander? they were immortals but they could die under certian circumstances

Like being beheaded?

[Floatingaxe]

I believe that as long as Adam remained sinless the plan was that he and Eve would not know death. Eating of the Tree of Life would have bypassed the new edict of temporary physical life as the consequence of sin--it would have negated that consequence.

Then therefore God allowed death to enter into the world as a punishment for Adam's sin?

So what sin did the rest of creation commit that it should also die?

Yes God instituted death as a consequence for sin. Death visits all because of that one event. All creation is tainted by it.

[Ovedya]

I believe that as long as Adam remained sinless the plan was that he and Eve would not know death. Eating of the Tree of Life would have bypassed the new edict of temporary physical life as the consequence of sin--it would have negated that consequence.

Then therefore God allowed death to enter into the world as a punishment for Adam's sin?

So what sin did the rest of creation commit that it should also die?

Yes God instituted death as a consequence for sin. Death visits all because of that one event. All creation is tainted by it.

Then what did creation do to deserve such a penalty?

Second, what about the following verse, which appears to support the notion that death is "appointed" or "reserved" for all men?

"And inasmuch as it is reserved for men to die once, and after this comes judgment" (Heb. 9:27)

[Floatingaxe]

I believe that as long as Adam remained sinless the plan was that he and Eve would not know death. Eating of the Tree of Life would have bypassed the new edict of temporary physical life as the consequence of sin--it would have negated that consequence.

Then therefore God allowed death to enter into the world as a punishment for Adam's sin?

So what sin did the rest of creation commit that it should also die?

Yes God instituted death as a consequence for sin. Death visits all because of that one event. All creation is tainted by it.

Then what did creation do to deserve such a penalty?

Second, what about the following verse, which appears to support the notion that death is "appointed" or "reserved" for all men?

"And inasmuch as it is reserved for men to die once, and after this comes judgment" (Heb. 9:27)

If you remember, the most important of Creation, the newly instituted garden tender---sinned. Worthy of death.

What about the verse? God's plan for mankind took a U-turn after the Fall.

[Ovedya]

I believe that as long as Adam remained sinless the plan was that he and Eve would not know death. Eating of the Tree of Life would have bypassed the new edict of temporary physical life as the consequence of sin--it would have negated that consequence.

Then therefore God allowed death to enter into the world as a punishment for Adam's sin?

So what sin did the rest of creation commit that it should also die?

Yes God instituted death as a consequence for sin. Death visits all because of that one event. All creation is tainted by it.

Then what did creation do to deserve such a penalty?

Second, what about the following verse, which appears to support the notion that death is "appointed" or "reserved" for all men?

"And inasmuch as it is reserved for men to die once, and after this comes judgment" (Heb. 9:27)

If you remember, the most important of Creation, the newly instituted garden tender---sinned. Worthy of death.

What about the verse? God's plan for mankind took a U-turn after the Fall.

Then how is it "appointed" for man to die once? Who appointed it if not God?

Also, what do you think of my response to Shiloh regarding death and resurrection?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. But the earth became waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the waters...And God said, Let the earth sprout grass, herbs yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit according to their kind with their seed in them upon the earth; and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, herbs yielding seed according to their kind, and trees bearing fruit with their seed in them according to their kind; and God saw that it was good." (Gen. 1:1-2; 11-12)

Of all the items in the creation event only the earth "brought forth" grass, herbs, and fruit trees. All of the other items were either there already or God had created them. this seems to imply that the seeds of the plant life were already in the earth. This, as I wrote previously, appears to be supportive of the pre-earth judgment theory. However, as I pointed out above, the fact that the earth was once "dead" and then brought forth life speaks to resurrection. So death and resurrection were both there prior to Adam. Which would mean that death itself was not instituted by the fall of Adam.

[Floatingaxe]

I believe that as long as Adam remained sinless the plan was that he and Eve would not know death. Eating of the Tree of Life would have bypassed the new edict of temporary physical life as the consequence of sin--it would have negated that consequence.

Then therefore God allowed death to enter into the world as a punishment for Adam's sin?

So what sin did the rest of creation commit that it should also die?

Yes God instituted death as a consequence for sin. Death visits all because of that one event. All creation is tainted by it.

Then what did creation do to deserve such a penalty?

Second, what about the following verse, which appears to support the notion that death is "appointed" or "reserved" for all men?

"And inasmuch as it is reserved for men to die once, and after this comes judgment" (Heb. 9:27)

If you remember, the most important of Creation, the newly instituted garden tender---sinned. Worthy of death.

What about the verse? God's plan for mankind took a U-turn after the Fall.

Then how is it "appointed" for man to die once? Who appointed it if not God?

Also, what do you think of my response to Shiloh regarding death and resurrection?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. But the earth became waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the waters...And God said, Let the earth sprout grass, herbs yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit according to their kind with their seed in them upon the earth; and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, herbs yielding seed according to their kind, and trees bearing fruit with their seed in them according to their kind; and God saw that it was good." (Gen. 1:1-2; 11-12)

Of all the items in the creation event only the earth "brought forth" grass, herbs, and fruit trees. All of the other items were either there already or God had created them. this seems to imply that the seeds of the plant life were already in the earth. This, as I wrote previously, appears to be supportive of the pre-earth judgment theory. However, as I pointed out above, the fact that the earth was once "dead" and then brought forth life speaks to resurrection. So death and resurrection were both there prior to Adam. Which would mean that death itself was not instituted by the fall of Adam.

As God declared Adam and Eve banished and declared their consequence, which is ours as well, He set down a new appointment, didn't He?

Refarding your second question--yep, I believe the seeds were pre-planted from a former earthly life, such as it was. Good point about prior death following suit in Adam's race. However, new Creation comes with new Laws. I don't believe God's working before our Creation has any bearing on this. We are separate, special and God's purposes are distinctly for us to be one with Him.

Who knows what plans God still has up His sleeve for us and for unknown worlds in the infinite future? There is just as much infinite past behind us. We are indeed but a vapour.

[Ovedya]

I believe that as long as Adam remained sinless the plan was that he and Eve would not know death. Eating of the Tree of Life would have bypassed the new edict of temporary physical life as the consequence of sin--it would have negated that consequence.

Then therefore God allowed death to enter into the world as a punishment for Adam's sin?

So what sin did the rest of creation commit that it should also die?

Yes God instituted death as a consequence for sin. Death visits all because of that one event. All creation is tainted by it.

Then what did creation do to deserve such a penalty?

Second, what about the following verse, which appears to support the notion that death is "appointed" or "reserved" for all men?

"And inasmuch as it is reserved for men to die once, and after this comes judgment" (Heb. 9:27)

If you remember, the most important of Creation, the newly instituted garden tender---sinned. Worthy of death.

What about the verse? God's plan for mankind took a U-turn after the Fall.

Then how is it "appointed" for man to die once? Who appointed it if not God?

Also, what do you think of my response to Shiloh regarding death and resurrection?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. But the earth became waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the waters...And God said, Let the earth sprout grass, herbs yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit according to their kind with their seed in them upon the earth; and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, herbs yielding seed according to their kind, and trees bearing fruit with their seed in them according to their kind; and God saw that it was good." (Gen. 1:1-2; 11-12)

Of all the items in the creation event only the earth "brought forth" grass, herbs, and fruit trees. All of the other items were either there already or God had created them. this seems to imply that the seeds of the plant life were already in the earth. This, as I wrote previously, appears to be supportive of the pre-earth judgment theory. However, as I pointed out above, the fact that the earth was once "dead" and then brought forth life speaks to resurrection. So death and resurrection were both there prior to Adam. Which would mean that death itself was not instituted by the fall of Adam.

As God declared Adam and Eve banished and declared their consequence, which is ours as well, He set down a new appointment, didn't He?

Refarding your second question--yep, I believe the seeds were pre-planted from a former earthly life, such as it was. Good point about prior death following suit in Adam's race. However, new Creation comes with new Laws. I don't believe God's working before our Creation has any bearing on this. We are separate, special and God's purposes are distinctly for us to be one with Him.

Who knows what plans God still has up His sleeve for us and for unknown worlds in the infinite future? There is just as much infinite past behind us. We are indeed but a vapour.

All good points. I'm glad that we agree. I am not certain about "new creation means new laws" however. I think that there are laws which God established in the creation of the entire universe and in time. I believe that those laws are in accord with who He is and how he operates within the creation as a whole. I also believe that life and death, death and resurrection, are two of those aspects of God's creation.

There appears to be a sort of stigma, a fear of death, built within man or within religion especially. But the Bible does not say that death is to be feared at all. In fact it argues very clearly that death for the righteous is a gain, whereas death for the wicked is a punishment. That, of course is due to God's judgment upon the wicked.

[Guest man]

Whether he lived forever from eating the tree once (as you think) or from sustained eating of the tree (as I think), either way, had he not sinned, he would not have died.

Where does it state this?