Faith vs. Science 2

[Isaiah-smiles]

Can you give me a citation to clam fossils on Mt. Everest. It is a claim I have heard before but have never seen any source.

Sedimentary rocks that settled on its ocean floor ended up on top of mountains because of the movement of tectonic plates in order to run off water into what is now the deeper ocean basins. And since we have sedimentary on top of mountains which was once the ocean floor it would only be natural to find fossilized oceanic organisms. I believe NOVA is a reasonable secular resource. So, to view an animation of this phenomena click on the link to see more; http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/everest/earth/birth.html I have included a second secular resource as well; http://antiquity.ac.uk/ProjGall/jeck/index.html But I am also including a christian resource as well; http://www.icr.org/articles/view/520/270/ So, check out all three.

Can you direct me to the mountains along the east coast of south america please. Thanks.

No problem. Brazil is divided into five primary geographic areas: the northern Guiana Highlands; Brazilian Highlands (or plateau) central and east; the massive Amazon River Basin; Pantanal wetland areas of the southwest, and the Southern Highlands - to the west and south of Curitiba.

The Brazilian Highlands are covered by low mountain ranges and forested river valleys. From Rio de Janeiro - north to Fortaleza, a series of higher mountain ranges form a natural barrier between the Atlantic Ocean and the country's interior.

Click on link to see map; http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/samerica/br.htm

[Isaiah-smiles]

Just an extention to what I just posted; To show what God has done with the tectonic plates I believe that God reveals this in His Word; "Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains. 7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away. 8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them. 9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth." (Psalms 104:6-9)

And; "And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. 4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. 5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen. 6 And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made: 7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth. 8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;" (Gen. 8:3-8)

This doesn't contradict a literal reading at all...Genesis is talking about the known inhabited world being destroyed by a flood. There were probably people in other parts of the world but we don't know if they died or not. You have to remember that the world's population, at the time, would have been a few hundred thousand; not the 6.2 billion on earth today. And an Ark was called for because the Lord commanded Noah to build one and bring those animals aboard. We can't apply human reasoning to the plans of God

MorningGlory, there is no need to compromise the Word of God. Within it's pages are the answers to every hard question, we just need to seek it out of God's Holy Word. In my 25 years experience of being a born again Christian I too had certain doubts or compromises between fact and fiction, between God's Word and Man's wisdom. I have learned to trust God's Word w/ the answers and not depend on the wisdom of man. God has never let me down. Sometimes what seems like a contradiction is really a contrast. If you hang in there long enough and seek the answers in God's Word you will not have to compromise w/ man's wisdom for it is foolishness to God.

For example; The flood was not local, but rather, global. Notice what God's Word says; "And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered." (Gen. 7:19,20)

[MorningGlory]

MorningGlory, there is no need to compromise the Word of God. Within it's pages are the answers to every hard question, we just need to seek it out of God's Holy Word. In my 25 years experience of being a born again Christian I too had certain doubts or compromises between fact and fiction, between God's Word and Man's wisdom. I have learned to trust God's Word w/ the answers and not depend on the wisdom of man. God has never let me down. Sometimes what seems like a contradiction is really a contrast. If you hang in there long enough and seek the answers in God's Word you will not have to compromise w/ man's wisdom for it is foolishness to God.

For example; The flood was not local, but rather, global. Notice what God's Word says; "And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered." (Gen. 7:19,20)

You must have misunderstood my post; I have absolute faith in the word of God. However, the Bible was written down by the Lord's scribes and I'm sure they recorded His word in the context of what was known to them....as most humans would do. Most of the earth was uninhabited at the time, from what I've read. The flood would have been global....in the context that it covered the entire inhabited world at the time. I've no need to 'hang in there' as I already trust the word of God and I really don't think applying intellect and reason to words recorded by mortals constitutes 'foolishness'.

[Isaiah-smiles]

Isaiah: When did this flood take place?

According to Biblical time line, approx. 4400 years ago.

[Isaiah-smiles]

You must have misunderstood my post; I have absolute faith in the word of God. However, the Bible was written down by the Lord's scribes and I'm sure they recorded His word in the context of what was known to them....as most humans would do. Most of the earth was uninhabited at the time, from what I've read. The flood would have been global....in the context that it covered the entire inhabited world at the time. I've no need to 'hang in there' as I already trust the word of God and I really don't think applying intellect and reason to words recorded by mortals constitutes 'foolishness'.

Does not sound like faith to me. Sounds like, the way you put it, that the Bible (or at least some of it's contents) does not deal with the "context of what is known to us". In other words, the Bible really only applies to what was known then? Hog wash! And by the way, the world was alot more populated than what you think. Adam, for example, lived to be 930 years of age begetting sons and daughters the whole time. Where do you think Cain found his wife? Likely he married a relative. And each generation lived just as long, give or take a few years, and they too beget sons and daughters. And the pre-flood world had smaller oceans, mountains and valleys and most likely more land mass which would allow transmigration of peoples. So, with people living longer and having larger families I have seen specs showing approx. 1-2 billion people living in the pre-flood era. Also, if you read Genesis, you'll find that by the third generation they began to build cities. And by the eighth generation they had musical instruments like the harp and organ and they were making brass and iron. Seems like they were pretty civilized long before the flood.

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. 2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother

[MorningGlory]

MorningGlory, there is no need to compromise the Word of God. Within it's pages are the answers to every hard question, we just need to seek it out of God's Holy Word. In my 25 years experience of being a born again Christian I too had certain doubts or compromises between fact and fiction, between God's Word and Man's wisdom. I have learned to trust God's Word w/ the answers and not depend on the wisdom of man. God has never let me down. Sometimes what seems like a contradiction is really a contrast. If you hang in there long enough and seek the answers in God's Word you will not have to compromise w/ man's wisdom for it is foolishness to God.

For example; The flood was not local, but rather, global. Notice what God's Word says; "And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered." (Gen. 7:19,20)

You must have misunderstood my post; I have absolute faith in the word of God. However, the Bible was written down by the Lord's scribes and I'm sure they recorded His word in the context of what was known to them....as most humans would do. Most of the earth was uninhabited at the time, from what I've read. The flood would have been global....in the context that it covered the entire inhabited world at the time. I've no need to 'hang in there' as I already trust the word of God and I really don't think applying intellect and reason to words recorded by mortals constitutes 'foolishness'.

When did the flood take place? 5-6000 years ago? If so, most of the earth was inhabited by people then.

Between 6,000 to 7,500 years ago from what I've read. What makes you think most of the earth was populated at that time?

[MorningGlory]

Does not sound like faith to me. Sounds like, the way you put it, that the Bible (or at least some of it's contents) does not deal with the "context of what is known to us". In other words, the Bible really only applies to what was known then? Hog wash! And by the way, the world was alot more populated than what you think. most likely more land mass which would allow transmigration of peoples. So, with people living longer and having larger families I have seen specs showing approx. 1-2 billion people living in the pre-flood era. Also, if you read Genesis, you'll find that by the third generation they began to build cities. And by the eighth generation they had musical instruments like the harp and organ and they were making brass and iron. Seems like they were pretty civilized long before the flood.

I'm really not concerned how it sounds to you, my friend and don't even try to challenge my faith. Btw, I've read Genesis, thank you, and don't appreciate your referring to my comments as 'hogwash'. Now post your sources showing evidence of 1-2 billion inhabitants on earth at the time of the flood; that's what we do here at Worthy....if we post something, we cite the source. Please don't offer your opinion as Gospel......

[MorningGlory]

Well, mostly because there is no evidence of a world-wide flood 6000 to 7500 years ago. The evidence is that humans started moving out of Africa 100,000 + years ago and that by 15,000-20,000 years ago we had spread all over the planet. (Note my time table might be a little off--but man is mucho older that 6000-7500 years and there is NO evidence of a world wide flood)

I will check on that stuff I posted; I hate to go off like a firecracker without knowing what I'm talking about.

[Jorge S]

...and there is NO evidence of a world wide flood)

Walt Brown would disagree with you. In his online book he lists a few evidences which are better explained by a catastrophic flood, namely:

1. The Grand Canyon and Other Canyons

2. Mid-Oceanic Ridge

3. Continental Shelves and Slopes

4. Ocean Trenches and the Ring of Fire

5. Earthquakes

6. Magnetic Variations on the Ocean Floor

7. Submarine Canyons

8. Coal and Oil

9. Methane Hydrates

10. Ice Age

11. Frozen Mammoths

12. Major Mountain Ranges

13. Overthrusts

14. Volcanoes and Lava

15. Geothermal Heat

16. Strata and Layered Fossils

17. Limestone

18. Metamorphic Rock

19. Plateaus

20. The Moho

21. Salt Domes

22. Jigsaw Fit of the Continents

23. Changing Axis Tilt

24. Comets

25. Asteroids and Meteoroids

A more detailed explanation follows in the next 200+ pages.

{http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/...Sciences12.html}

You may or may not agree with him but his position represents a look at the evidence from a different position.

BTW: Long time not exchanging views on this Board. Hope everything is well with you and your loved ones. Blessings.

[Isaiah-smiles]

Other than the nice Bible story, is there any evidence that people lived for nearly 1000 years?

Is there any evidence of smaller oceans, more land mass etc??

Other than the nice Bible story!? The Bible is the very best resource than anything else out there. And as for me and my household, our trust is in the God of the Bible. As for evidence? Where is the evidence that reveals that man did not live that long in the pre-flood era?! His Word says it and that settles it in my mind. I am relying on the written truth of God's Word which has been around beginning w/ Moses. You really need to do your own homework and quit being lazy about it. If you really want evidence of smaller oceans and more land mass, do your own research. I'll just give you a hint on where to start. Try looking into the subjects of tectonic plates, the movement of continents and the transmigration of peoples while keeping an eye on scriptures and then you may see that God did mention things pertaining to outside evidences (especially in Genesis, Psalms and Isaiah). If you can't rely totally on the Bible other than a "nice Bible story", then in your own mind you have brought His Word's integrity to question and doubt, wherein lies the covenants and promises, which are the very foundation to your salvation.

The evidence that the Bible is truly God