The divorce and remarriage question

[deut31:12]

According to Jesus in Math 5:28 "Whoever lusts after a women has already commited adultery", and we know that marriage is the only lawful outlet for sexual expression and intimacy.

The word "Whoever" makes no exceptions, and Rom 7:2+3 teach the truth that marriage is until death and that anything else is adultery. Therefore infidelity cannot make way for divorce and remarriage as it is still adultery.

Dictionary.com defines the word "Adulterate" as " to debase or make impure by using inferior materials or elements; use cheaper, inferior, or less desireable goods in production of (any professedly genuine article)"

Therefore IMO the only lawful reason for divorce can only be marriage that was unlawful in the first case, such as incest, homosexuality, having living spouse from a lawful marriage etc. Another exception is in the Jewish culture when fornication was committed by a betrothed person before the actual marriage cerimony that took place 2 yrs after the engagement. In Jewish culture the two were considered married at engagement and could only be broken off/divorced for this one reason.

The acceptance of divorce/remarriage in the Christian church is a modern phenomina, IMO people should seek God on this most serious and far reaching topic, and not be swayed by the counsel of anyone including myself, as "no adulterers will enter heaven".

The word translated to fornication was porneia, and the dictionary definition for that Greek word is harlotry (including adultery and incest); fig. idolatry_fornication. The reason why the church accepts adultery as grounds for divorce and re-marriage is because Jesus stated that porneia was Biblical grounds, and that includes adultery. This is not talking about adultery in one's heart. When Jesus spoke of adultery in one's heart, the point he was making was that God looks at a man's heart and not just what he does outwardly. He was not expanding the definition of porneia to include simply having lust in one's heart, and making that grounds for divorce.

I highly agree. Jesus was just letting us know that if we look at a woman to lust after her that our hearts are in sin as IF we already committed the act, but the act of physically committing adultery can give my spouse a reason to divorce me.

[deut31:12]

Y'all are trying real hard to make me feel guilty for divorcing a gay man who practices witchcraft, ya know....

I would like to know this: can you explain why people always (and I mean ALWAYS) take Paul's words over Jesus' words when it comes to this subject? Who is Paul in comparison to Y'shua???? Last I looked, Paul didn't die for our sins, did he? Then why would we take Paul's words on the subject of divorce over our Elohim Y'shua????

Perhaps I'm all wet for asking the question, but it really bugs me when someone starts quoting a servant over the Master.

a.

I have seen this reasoning before where people are saying that Paul is the one who said it and not Jesus. Well the answer is that Paul was inspired by God through the HS on what to say. All of the Apostles and those who wrote the bible were inspired by God on what to write. Even though it cam from their mouths our their pens it is still inspired by God or we can use the same mindset on everything that we read that is not said directly by Jesus. I.e. It was also Paul that wrote, "For by grace you are saved by grace, through faith". Since Paul wrote it and Jesus didn't does that mean that is doesn't hold any water?

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16

[deut31:12]

1 Corinthians 7 goes on after verse 13 to say:

1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

1Co 7:15

But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases

: but God hath called us to peace.

Still later in the same chapter:

These scriptures are speaking of spouses that are not Christians who choose to leave the Christians spouse, probably because of Christianity, and if they choose to leave let them, but Christians are not under this type of thinking. We can't just choose to leave one another as we are married.

1Co 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.

1Co 7:28

But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned

; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

You have to remember that Paul chose to stay unmarried and his views on it is that the unmarried can serve God better because he is not distracted by his spouse and can devote all of their attention to God, but if people want to get married they can and don't sin.

This is NOT saying that if my unbelieving spouse leaves me I can remarry because that contradicts this -

Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Romans 7:1-3

If you have been married before and marry somebody else while your ex is still alive you are living in adultery. They only two things that let us out of being married are the death of our spouse and infidelity. You have to live by these scriptures -

"Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband"

If you use the scriptures you quoted for the purpose you suggest then you create a contradiction.

And yet the verses

are

Scripture, and Paul wrote them for a reason. It's not like I wrote them and tried to slip them into the Bible. What could they mean except what they plainly say?

What you are trying to make them say is not what they are saying.

[deut31:12]

I don't know who is taking Paul's teachings ahead of Christ? Jesus stated that the only grounds for divorce and re-marriage was fornication which includes adultery in the Greek. Paul only gave one other exception, and that was a case where two people enter a marriage, and both are sinners. Then one gets saved and as a direct result of their new found faith, their spouse abandons them. Why would this be an additional exception and not going against Jesus' teachings? Because when one person in the marriage gets saved, the old sinful person that originally entered into the marriage covenant died, and they were born again a new creature. Paul stated that if the unbeliever is content to remain married to the believer, the believer should not divorce them, but if the unbeliever leaves the believer, they are not in bondage in such situations. The entire Bible is the Word of God, and whether it was penned by Paul or by someone quoting Jesus, it is all innerant.

Butero,

No disrespect, but that is not what Paul was teaching there. The marriage still stands if one becomes a Christian and one does not. What Paul was trying to say is that if the unbelieving spouse leaves then let them leave, but if both are Christians they don't have the liberty to just leave each other if things are not working out. They are supposed work out their marriage.

You have to keep it all in context with what was being said -

But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 1 Corinthians 7:12-15

All this is saying is that if I have an unbelieving spouse and they want to stay with me they can and they are sanctified by God and holy because they are with me, but if they choose to leave then let them leave, but these aren't the cases if we are both believers. We are supposed to work out our marriages.

If my spouse chooses to leave then this is what Paul's mind is on it -

And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. 1 Corinthians 7:10-12

[deut31:12]

I would hope everyone is sympathetic concerning what your husband has put you through. Simply having to deal with infidelity is bad enough, but having your spouse become a homosexual would have to be worse. You are the victim in your marriage, and I can't understand why anyone, from a personal standpoint or Biblical standpoint would think you should have to remain in that kind of a marriage? This has nothing to do with Paul's teachings verses Jesus' teachings. The Bible states that fornication, which includes adultery, are grounds for divorce.

One thing, too, nobody expects anybody to stay in a bad marriage, but what this discussion is on is if people can remarry. The only two things that the bible allows people to remarry for is if our spouse is dead or if we put them away for infidelity. If they were abusive or were doing things that we can't live with and choose to leave them then the only choices given to us is to either reconcile ourselves with them or stay unmarried. I think this is why so many people are having a hard time with this is because they do not want to stay unmarried.

[anitarose]

I would hope everyone is sympathetic concerning what your husband has put you through. Simply having to deal with infidelity is bad enough, but having your spouse become a homosexual would have to be worse. You are the victim in your marriage, and I can't understand why anyone, from a personal standpoint or Biblical standpoint would think you should have to remain in that kind of a marriage? This has nothing to do with Paul's teachings verses Jesus' teachings. The Bible states that fornication, which includes adultery, are grounds for divorce.

One thing, too, nobody expects anybody to stay in a bad marriage, but what this discussion is on is if people can remarry. The only two things that the bible allows people to remarry for is if our spouse is dead or if we put them away for infidelity. If they were abusive or were doing things that we can't live with and choose to leave them then the only choices given to us is to either reconcile ourselves with them or stay unmarried. I think this is why so many people are having a hard time with this is because they do not want to stay unmarried.

and according to your statement, I would have to reconcile with my husband because he is a homosexual who practices witchcraft---two things in the Torah that a person could get killed for---because of "doing things we can't live with".

I am entitled to remarry on those two criteria alone. Y'shua said it, Sha'ul said it and Moshe said it as well. I can't live as a widow in my father's house---my father is dead. I am still young enough (barely) to bear children. I want to honor HaShem and do the mitzvot of "being fruitful and multiply", but I can't do it with someone who prefers men to me.

However, I'm intelligent enough to know the pain and the scars I bear cannot go into another relationship, so I am in counseling for this as well as planning on waiting until HaShem allows me to be healed enough to be in another relationship.

But, this I know: I CAN remarry and I WILL remarry. That is according to every Torah reading, every teaching from Y'shua and Sha'ul, and every Jewish sage.

a.

[Smalcald]

I don't know who is taking Paul's teachings ahead of Christ? Jesus stated that the only grounds for divorce and re-marriage was fornication which includes adultery in the Greek. Paul only gave one other exception, and that was a case where two people enter a marriage, and both are sinners. Then one gets saved and as a direct result of their new found faith, their spouse abandons them. Why would this be an additional exception and not going against Jesus' teachings? Because when one person in the marriage gets saved, the old sinful person that originally entered into the marriage covenant died, and they were born again a new creature. Paul stated that if the unbeliever is content to remain married to the believer, the believer should not divorce them, but if the unbeliever leaves the believer, they are not in bondage in such situations. The entire Bible is the Word of God, and whether it was penned by Paul or by someone quoting Jesus, it is all innerant.

Butero,

No disrespect, but that is not what Paul was teaching there. The marriage still stands if one becomes a Christian and one does not. What Paul was trying to say is that if the unbelieving spouse leaves then let them leave, but if both are Christians they don't have the liberty to just leave each other if things are not working out. They are supposed work out their marriage.

You have to keep it all in context with what was being said -

But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 1 Corinthians 7:12-15

All this is saying is that if I have an unbelieving spouse and they want to stay with me they can and they are sanctified by God and holy because they are with me, but if they choose to leave then let them leave, but these aren't the cases if we are both believers. We are supposed to work out our marriages.

If my spouse chooses to leave then this is what Paul's mind is on it -

And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. 1 Corinthians 7:10-12

I am not sure we dissagree here. This is a very specific situation where two unbelievers enter a marriage and one gets saved and one remains a sinner. If both of them, the husband and wife, are both Christians, you are correct in that they need to work things out.

But who is to say who is a Christian? It seems what I usually see in this case is that one person will say well the are not really a Christian they were never really saved.

But also what the above versus are clear on, the Christian believer is never free to leave, married to an unbeliever or not. If the unbeliever leaves okay they can re-marry or if the other party cheats, okay they are free to divorce and remarry. But a believer is not free to divorce simply becuase they are married to an unbelieving spouse according to my reading of the scripture.

[anitarose]

I don't know who is taking Paul's teachings ahead of Christ? Jesus stated that the only grounds for divorce and re-marriage was fornication which includes adultery in the Greek. Paul only gave one other exception, and that was a case where two people enter a marriage, and both are sinners. Then one gets saved and as a direct result of their new found faith, their spouse abandons them. Why would this be an additional exception and not going against Jesus' teachings? Because when one person in the marriage gets saved, the old sinful person that originally entered into the marriage covenant died, and they were born again a new creature. Paul stated that if the unbeliever is content to remain married to the believer, the believer should not divorce them, but if the unbeliever leaves the believer, they are not in bondage in such situations. The entire Bible is the Word of God, and whether it was penned by Paul or by someone quoting Jesus, it is all innerant.

Butero,

No disrespect, but that is not what Paul was teaching there. The marriage still stands if one becomes a Christian and one does not. What Paul was trying to say is that if the unbelieving spouse leaves then let them leave, but if both are Christians they don't have the liberty to just leave each other if things are not working out. They are supposed work out their marriage.

You have to keep it all in context with what was being said -

But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 1 Corinthians 7:12-15

All this is saying is that if I have an unbelieving spouse and they want to stay with me they can and they are sanctified by God and holy because they are with me, but if they choose to leave then let them leave, but these aren't the cases if we are both believers. We are supposed to work out our marriages.

If my spouse chooses to leave then this is what Paul's mind is on it -

And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. 1 Corinthians 7:10-12

I am not sure we dissagree here. This is a very specific situation where two unbelievers enter a marriage and one gets saved and one remains a sinner. If both of them, the husband and wife, are both Christians, you are correct in that they need to work things out.

But who is to say who is a Christian? It seems what I usually see in this case is that one person will say well the are not really a Christian they were never really saved.

But also what the above versus are clear on, the Christian believer is *never free to leave, married to an unbeliever or not.* If the unbeliever leaves okay they can re-marry or if the other party cheats, okay they are free to divorce and remarry. But a believer is not free to divorce simply becuase they are married to an unbelieving spouse according to my reading of the scripture.

There you go---I might point out that *I* was a believer when I left, albeit I had walked away from YHWH. I came back to YHWH a month after I left my ex. So where does that leave me now?

I know where it leaves me---my ex said he was a Christian, but two weeks after the wedding it was proven otherwise. I was married under a deception. Because of his deception, I walked away from YHWH and lived a life that wasn't pleasing to Him. When I turned back, it was after I left him. I left him because of homosexuality and witchcraft---both things that were reasons to stone someone in the Torah. Read Leviticus 20 in it's entirety if you don't believe it.

Whether you all believe it or not, I AM free and WILL remarry. I know what it says in His word. From Genesis to maps, it's HIS WORD that makes us free.

I would strongly suggest you go back and rethink the bolded and starred statements that were made, especially in my case. There *are* situations where the believer has no choice but to leave. Mine is one.

a.

[Smalcald]

Yeah I don't know. These cases are never clear cut at all. I was simply trying to get at what the passage said:

But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 1 Corinthians 7:12-15

That is simply how I took this particular passage. This particular passage is simply saying that if you have a non believing spouse and they leave then you are not under bondage, but I don't think it says the inverse. That if you have an unbelieving spouse this is justification in and of itself for a believer to leave.

You know in your case I don't think any of this verse would even apply to your situation, your scriptural grounds were adultery and like you said, I doubt your marriage was ever valid in the first place as it was based on total deception.

[wyguy]

After a divorce, why in the world would you want to remarry???

I can think of lots of things more preferable - such as nailing my bottom lip to a telephone pole.