unanswered prayer

[Mom2Many]

mom2many, i have a question. i understand what you're saying about wives needing to submit to their husbands, and i absolutely believe the man is the head of the household and will be held accountable for his decisions. however, i struggle with this:

If this act is indeed going against God, I won't have to be the one to answer for it because I was obediant to God and I submitted as I was instructed to do.

let me take a more practicle hypothetical situation with this. say a family is dirt poor. wife goes to the grocery store, comes home, and finds that the cashier had given her $20 too much in change. she knows keeping it would be the same as stealing and that it would be wrong. she tells hubby, and hubby says "do not return the money. we need it." no matter what she says to him, he insists she not return the money. do you believe she will not be held accountable to God for disobeying His command to not steal, simply because she was submitting to her husband? isn't that kind of saying the same thing adam and eve did in the garden: it wasn't my fault? isn't that what the nuremburg trials were about? (i know that's kind of a far out example, but i believe the principle is the same: i shouldn't be held accountable because i was simply following orders.)

submitting to your husband as far as having children is one thing, but to say we must submit in EVERYTHING is something else. i believe we submit to God above everyone--including our husbands. isn't that what acts 5:29 is talking about? we ought to obey God rather than men.

just a thought.

To be honest, if I was overpaid $20 in change, I would have caught that before I even went out of the store and would have corrected the problem with the cashier or manager. This is not something I feel a wife would need to consult her husband about and if he was with me, I would have spoken up.

Ephesians 5:24 is what instructs me to submit to my husband in everything. Yes, Acts 5:29 does state that we ought to obey God rather than man, but by obeying my husband and submitting to him and going to God in prayer for the things my husband and I don't agree upon, I am obeying God. My believe is I am putting God above everyone. I'm obeying His Word at all times, not just sometimes.

Thankfully I've never been put in these hypothedical situations *whoo*

[Carol R]

Hi,

I haven't read all the posts but have you thought of fostering????

Or

Sunday school/ creche helper or something along those lines?????

You could also put it into Gods hands and say ok I'm not touching it any more you know my heart Lord let your will be done.

I think its lovely that you and your husband love your children you are truly blessed

[Mom2Many]

Thankfully I've never been put in these hypothedical situations *whoo*

now that you've said that, however..... -you KNOW God has a sense of humor!

and you didn't answer my question: would the wife be held accountable for stealing if her husband said not to take the money back? im not wondering what should or shouldn't happen so things like this would not occurr. you made a blanket statement that wives are not held accountable when submitting to their husbands. so if a husband (not yours) tells a wife (not you) to steal or lie or any "small" thing that goes against what God has commanded for ALL of us, she will not be held accountable for the sin she commits because she is submitting to her husband? that's the question im asking.

I believe that there are situations where we need to state our case a little stronger to our hubby's. In situations where we are going directly against God's law, we need to go to our husbands and explain exactly why we don't support their decision or their actions and that we won't help them commit this or that act of sin. But we will help them in whatever other way we can. I also believe that we need to stand firm on the point, that although we don't approve and won't participate, we still love them, respect them and honor them. Would we be held accountable if we stole or lied, yes, we would be held accountable. When I was making the statement that our husbands would be held accountable for going against something of God and we not submitting to his request, I was making that statement in reference to a woman believing that God was laying on her heart to have more children and her husband saying "No Way!" This is a situation where she has no choice but to submit to her husband. The alternative would be deceit.

now that you've said that, however..... -you KNOW God has a sense of humor!

I posted not too long ago about my own struggles with certain things and I've found out very clear how much of a sense of humor God can have I probally stepped right into that humor all the more in just making that one statement!

[LilyPotter]

you made a blanket statement that wives are not held accountable when submitting to their husbands. so if a husband (not yours) tells a wife (not you) to steal or lie or any "small" thing that goes against what God has commanded for ALL of us, she will not be held accountable for the sin she commits because she is submitting to her husband? that's the question im asking.

Yes, that is how I'm wondering, too.

Certainly, *shew*, as you said, none of my hypothetical situations would happen in my marriage. But they happen to some marriages. If a friend told me one of those hypothetical situations was happening in her home, I would not say, "Yes, I knew he was a toad when you married him. Boy, that sucks for you." And I definitely wouldn't "nag" him if he was doing these things. I would leave.

As far as having more children goes, I haven't nagged him about that, either, but when the subject comes up now and then, it goes the same way each time. Me: Yes, I still would like to have another baby. Him: Okay, and I still don't want another baby.

I think (and this is mt personal view as a man) your husband may say no- and to a man it may mean no for the moment and maybe for the distant future. it is like prayers.. if the prayer of a rightoeus man/woman availeth much, i am sure God can change his mind. Have you prayed about it?

That would be why the OP is titled "unanswered prayer". If it's "no for the moment", it's been a loooong moment. And there isn't much "distant future" left for us. This is why I'm getting messed up in the head over it. We're at the end of our time horizon. More because of his age than mine, but even my time horizon is late in the day. So if it isn't soon, it isn't ever, unless something very unusual happens. (Say, gaining custody of neices and nephews in the event of a tragedy.)

I haven't read all the posts but have you thought of fostering????

Or

Sunday school/ creche helper or something along those lines?????

No, this is not the "fix". It's not that I want a baby, it's that I want another child to raise. It's not that I want to just be around kids or take care of them, it's that I want to bring them up from little to big. I like the whole long deal of it, the learning to talk and learning to read and learning to ride a bike. I like their soccer games and their swimming lessons and herding them around at the library (but not the supermarket so much!). I like for them to have a group of siblings to grow up with; for mine, it will be a small group. I hope for them one day to flock home for Sunday dinners with their own clans and that happy chaos of a pile of grandkids running around. *Sigh* I need to stop; I'm getting sad.

[Mom2Many]

you made a blanket statement that wives are not held accountable when submitting to their husbands. so if a husband (not yours) tells a wife (not you) to steal or lie or any "small" thing that goes against what God has commanded for ALL of us, she will not be held accountable for the sin she commits because she is submitting to her husband? that's the question im asking.

Yes, that is how I'm wondering, too.

Certainly, *shew*, as you said, none of my hypothetical situations would happen in my marriage. But they happen to some marriages. If a friend told me one of those hypothetical situations was happening in her home, I would not say, "Yes, I knew he was a toad when you married him. Boy, that sucks for you." And I definitely wouldn't "nag" him if he was doing these things. I would leave.

As far as having more children goes, I haven't nagged him about that, either, but when the subject comes up now and then, it goes the same way each time. Me: Yes, I still would like to have another baby. Him: Okay, and I still don't want another baby.

I think (and this is mt personal view as a man) your husband may say no- and to a man it may mean no for the moment and maybe for the distant future. it is like prayers.. if the prayer of a rightoeus man/woman availeth much, i am sure God can change his mind. Have you prayed about it?

That would be why the OP is titled "unanswered prayer". If it's "no for the moment", it's been a loooong moment. And there isn't much "distant future" left for us. This is why I'm getting messed up in the head over it. We're at the end of our time horizon. More because of his age than mine, but even my time horizon is late in the day. So if it isn't soon, it isn't ever, unless something very unusual happens. (Say, gaining custody of neices and nephews in the event of a tragedy.)

I haven't read all the posts but have you thought of fostering????

Or

Sunday school/ creche helper or something along those lines?????

No, this is not the "fix". It's not that I want a baby, it's that I want another child to raise. It's not that I want to just be around kids or take care of them, it's that I want to bring them up from little to big. I like the whole long deal of it, the learning to talk and learning to read and learning to ride a bike. I like their soccer games and their swimming lessons and herding them around at the library (but not the supermarket so much!). I like for them to have a group of siblings to grow up with; for mine, it will be a small group. I hope for them one day to flock home for Sunday dinners with their own clans and that happy chaos of a pile of grandkids running around. *Sigh* I need to stop; I'm getting sad.

We must have been posting at the same time. I answered the questions in my post before yours.

I have a friend that's going through a situation like this herself. She married such a toad and was so determined that she could change him. When she couldn't, she's now filing for divorce. I definitly have never told her it stinks to be her, but she does know I don't support her leaving him either and I personally would never tell someone they need to get a divorce from someone.

Unfortunately and I'm sure you know this and have heard this before, God doesn't always answer prayers for us the way we want him to or in our time. He may never change your hubby's heart towards having more children. I'm just wondering, but have you discussed with him the reasons why he doesn't want anymore and would there be anything you could do to help him atleast consider it?

I can relate to the desire to want to raise a child from young to old, to have all the fun stuff. Raising a child is one of the greatest gifts we can receive. Fostering a child would be very difficult, especially when that child was taken out of my home and I'm sure being a Sunday School Teacher isn't going to fill the desire to have more babies in your arms. But, at the very least, adoption could ever well be an option. There are so many babies in this world that need loving arms and that option could possibly fill that void??

[LilyPotter]

Unfortunately and I'm sure you know this and have heard this before, God doesn't always answer prayers for us the way we want him to or in our time. He may never change your hubby's heart towards having more children. I'm just wondering, but have you discussed with him the reasons why he doesn't want anymore and would there be anything you could do to help him atleast consider it?

I can relate to the desire to want to raise a child from young to old, to have all the fun stuff. Raising a child is one of the greatest gifts we can receive. Fostering a child would be very difficult, especially when that child was taken out of my home and I'm sure being a Sunday School Teacher isn't going to fill the desire to have more babies in your arms. But, at the very least, adoption could ever well be an option. There are so many babies in this world that need loving arms and that option could possibly fill that void??

Yes, that is why I know that the answer may not ever be another baby for Lily. Even if the answer was for me to get tired of wanting that, that would be an answer I could take. It's the limbo that I'm sick of. I don't want to want something if it's never going to happen. I would take just plain not wanting it anymore.

My husband and I have talked about it so many times and gone over the issue so completely. His reasons are not silly ones, they're serious. I face risks in pregnancy, I think there's a one in ten chance I will have another placental abruption. Since he has no particular longing for all those big-family things I mentioned, he sees it as why tempt fate? It's too dangerous and we got three out of five here alive, why risk anything else?

He's also 45 years old now. This is a major point for him. He is concerned about not living long enough to raise them all, or be a part of their lives as adult, etc.

I would be totally on board with adopting. It has gone through my head enough times that I've checked out library books and read articles on the web. But, again, this huge sticking point of my husband's age is almost a bigger issue with adopting than it would be for having a baby by pregnancy. I don't write it off as a possibility, maybe a way that God will answer this prayer. But really, it's not going to be much longer before the passage of time is even too much of a negative for me.

It's really because we're in the last year or two of this being much of a possibility that is getting me worked up about it. If we were several years younger, I wouldn't be pressed by this long-running unanswered prayer. But as the sun sets here, I'm starting to think it's going to be this Great Sorrow that I'll have to live with. And that just bums me out big time.

[Floatingaxe]

Unfortunately and I'm sure you know this and have heard this before, God doesn't always answer prayers for us the way we want him to or in our time. He may never change your hubby's heart towards having more children. I'm just wondering, but have you discussed with him the reasons why he doesn't want anymore and would there be anything you could do to help him atleast consider it?

I can relate to the desire to want to raise a child from young to old, to have all the fun stuff. Raising a child is one of the greatest gifts we can receive. Fostering a child would be very difficult, especially when that child was taken out of my home and I'm sure being a Sunday School Teacher isn't going to fill the desire to have more babies in your arms. But, at the very least, adoption could ever well be an option. There are so many babies in this world that need loving arms and that option could possibly fill that void??

Yes, that is why I know that the answer may not ever be another baby for Lily. Even if the answer was for me to get tired of wanting that, that would be an answer I could take. It's the limbo that I'm sick of. I don't want to want something if it's never going to happen. I would take just plain not wanting it anymore.

My husband and I have talked about it so many times and gone over the issue so completely. His reasons are not silly ones, they're serious. I face risks in pregnancy, I think there's a one in ten chance I will have another placental abruption. Since he has no particular longing for all those big-family things I mentioned, he sees it as why tempt fate? It's too dangerous and we got three out of five here alive, why risk anything else?

He's also 45 years old now. This is a major point for him. He is concerned about not living long enough to raise them all, or be a part of their lives as adult, etc.

I would be totally on board with adopting. It has gone through my head enough times that I've checked out library books and read articles on the web. But, again, this huge sticking point of my husband's age is almost a bigger issue with adopting than it would be for having a baby by pregnancy. I don't write it off as a possibility, maybe a way that God will answer this prayer. But really, it's not going to be much longer before the passage of time is even too much of a negative for me.

It's really because we're in the last year or two of this being much of a possibility that is getting me worked up about it. If we were several years younger, I wouldn't be pressed by this long-running unanswered prayer. But as the sun sets here, I'm starting to think it's going to be this Great Sorrow that I'll have to live with. And that just bums me out big time.

To speak honestly here, i do believe that your yearnings are legitimate. Mine were. But on the other hand, I believe that as your life unfolds, you will find yourself so busy in the business of living, and of parenting the children that God HAS given you, that your life will be full of that. Your longing will be overshadowed by the importance of rearing those that God has give you loan of for His sake. That is a mighty calling.

I doubt it will constitute any great sorrow for you, but will become just a phase in the larger scheme of things.

[Mom2Many]

Unfortunately and I'm sure you know this and have heard this before, God doesn't always answer prayers for us the way we want him to or in our time. He may never change your hubby's heart towards having more children. I'm just wondering, but have you discussed with him the reasons why he doesn't want anymore and would there be anything you could do to help him atleast consider it?

I can relate to the desire to want to raise a child from young to old, to have all the fun stuff. Raising a child is one of the greatest gifts we can receive. Fostering a child would be very difficult, especially when that child was taken out of my home and I'm sure being a Sunday School Teacher isn't going to fill the desire to have more babies in your arms. But, at the very least, adoption could ever well be an option. There are so many babies in this world that need loving arms and that option could possibly fill that void??

Yes, that is why I know that the answer may not ever be another baby for Lily. Even if the answer was for me to get tired of wanting that, that would be an answer I could take. It's the limbo that I'm sick of. I don't want to want something if it's never going to happen. I would take just plain not wanting it anymore.

My husband and I have talked about it so many times and gone over the issue so completely. His reasons are not silly ones, they're serious. I face risks in pregnancy, I think there's a one in ten chance I will have another placental abruption. Since he has no particular longing for all those big-family things I mentioned, he sees it as why tempt fate? It's too dangerous and we got three out of five here alive, why risk anything else?

He's also 45 years old now. This is a major point for him. He is concerned about not living long enough to raise them all, or be a part of their lives as adult, etc.

I would be totally on board with adopting. It has gone through my head enough times that I've checked out library books and read articles on the web. But, again, this huge sticking point of my husband's age is almost a bigger issue with adopting than it would be for having a baby by pregnancy. I don't write it off as a possibility, maybe a way that God will answer this prayer. But really, it's not going to be much longer before the passage of time is even too much of a negative for me.

It's really because we're in the last year or two of this being much of a possibility that is getting me worked up about it. If we were several years younger, I wouldn't be pressed by this long-running unanswered prayer. But as the sun sets here, I'm starting to think it's going to be this Great Sorrow that I'll have to live with. And that just bums me out big time.

It's funny how you mention placental abruption. This November marks the 5 year anniversary of when I gave birth to our twins prematurely. They were born at 23 weeks as a result of placental abruption. I was scared out of my whits and swore I would never have another baby. I'd never put my family or myself through that kind of pain again. I even begged the drs. to tie my tubes, but they refused because they felt it wasn't a decision to be made at a time like that. Boy, God worked on my heart heavily after that. It was because of that situation that I ended up turning my fertility over to God. My husband, wasn't very supportive of that idea. He was mad at God for what happened and it took him a very long time to get over his grief. I can remember those days of praying for him so hard it hurt sometimes. Eventually and not in my time, but in God's, he did come around. We've gone on to have 2 more children after the twins (ironically enough a boy and a girl, the twins were fraternal). And now here we are 5 years later, birth control free and leaving the big decisions up to God.

I will be praying for you! It's so hard, especially when we don't understand our desires compared to God's plan. But in the end, it'll work out the way it's supposed to, for you and for your Hubby.

Char- I wanted to say thank you for your encouraging words. I'm sure you understand along with others', it's hard sometimes to remember it's a lesson learned. But in the end, we appreciate those lessons.

[LilyPotter]

It's funny how you mention placental abruption. This November marks the 5 year anniversary of when I gave birth to our twins prematurely. They were born at 23 weeks as a result of placental abruption. I was scared out of my whits and swore I would never have another baby.

I'm so sorry you experienced that, Mom2Many. 2003 is when I lost my daughter at term and also had an early miscarriage.

[Mom2Many]

It's funny how you mention placental abruption. This November marks the 5 year anniversary of when I gave birth to our twins prematurely. They were born at 23 weeks as a result of placental abruption. I was scared out of my whits and swore I would never have another baby.

I'm so sorry you experienced that, Mom2Many. 2003 is when I lost my daughter at term and also had an early miscarriage.

I'm sorry for your losses as well. They are very difficult to deal with, but I believe with God's help is how I've gotten to where I am today. It was his stregnth, not mine.