Perfect Human

[Osiris]

What does being "made in the image of God" mean?

And if they were really perfect(just like God), why did Adam sin? (Perfect is perfect does)

Praise YaH, you understand perfect is as perfect does.

I will share a deep secret with you, most have not receive from God, Adam was made in God's image, there for He was perfect, and when He sinned, that is God also found in Himself that there was impurity, corruption, weakness, and so He made the plan to get those things out of Himself, so He did this plan, and continues to do this plan, for He will only receive, and except the things in Him which are perfect, pure, incorrupt, strong, and so Adam was made in the image of God, and when Adam sinned this is the manifestation of God finding His weakness, and those other things, Adam was made just like God, thus Adam fell, or found weakness, this also happened to God He found weakness in Himself, an offensive thing in His sight so He proceeded to separate this weakness from Himself, so He would be perfect,

I've never heard of this before, and this would not make God perfect and it would mean that God has never been perfect.

and thus that is at least one reason why Lucifer was made, when Lucifer sinned He received all of the weakness of God, which God did not like, so this is the beginning of the separation God choose to do to Himself,

This sounds more like Satan was made so God can throw all his impurities at him, Satan would serve sort of like a garbage can of sin; then Satan is not at fault for the way he is, if he was created from sin.

so perfection would be seen, and known, now we can see satan received all the weakness, imperfection, impurity, and corruption

And it wasn't his fault, because God was the one that gave Satan the impurities, Satan did not achieven them himself.

, we can also see Adam was like Lucifer before he sinned, and Adam was like satan which is who Lucifer became after He sinned,

Satan became like Adam? Are you sure you have this story straight ? Because from what I remember Satan was already a sinner when he was tempting Adam...

I would like to ask you something though, are these responces just your assumptions or they really happened; and if they did happen, do you have any proof of what you are saying is true? Reason is, I've never read anything like what you are saying in the bible.

they are similiar, except for people God would not allow to continually be under the subjection of satan, those God Himself would come down take upon Himself flesh, so that all could be saved from the imperfection of satan, only satan, and the evil spirits which come from him, will receive the wrath of God,

Why? From what you are saying, God sounds like an evil person. The reason Satan is imperfect is because God throw all his impurities into Satan, the God punishes Satan because Satan is not perfect?

to show God hates impurity, imperfection, and corruption, and weakness, but the people who dwell in God will be blessed forever,

Why didn't God punish himself in the first place rather than throw his impurities onto Satan?

just as God perfected, and perfects Himself, He will perfect the many thoughts within Him.

Excuse me but this sentence doesn't go anywhere, check for tautology.

For God is showing Himself as strong, awesome, wonderful, incorrupt, pure,and perfect.

At the cost of other innocent lives such as Satan and all humanity? I would say this would be more sinful, because he's trying to become perfect in a dishonest way.

Now we can see in Genesis God said they have become like Him to know good, and evil, you see God knows life, and establishes the tree of the knowledge of life, but He also has experienced the tree of the knowledge of good, and evil, knowing all things, and because He knows all He will establish all good things, thus we are to come to know the knowledge of the tree of life, so perfection will be established, so we may be in God through His Only Begotten Son YaHuSHia MeSHiaCH, YeHuSHua MeSHiaCH, Jesus Christ, Hasous Christo, Joseph Masih.

But according to what you told me, God doesn't know all, because if he did, he wouldn't have had a flaw to begin with and wouldn't have had to wash his sins onto Satan.

[His son]

Osiris,

God created good, and evil because He had a purpose for them. He was going to create man in His image which means man would have a freewill to make decisions. That was the purpose for the good and evil. God is the father of all fathers, and He loves with unconditional love, and His desire like that of any parent is that His children love Him unconditionaly. All the Angels, As well as Adam, and Eve were created perfect, and had a personal relationship with The Father, and satan was the first to exercise his freewill to and chose his pride over the love of God. When God put those two trees in the garden He establised mans freewill choices. satan had been cast out with 1/3 of the angels, and he was determined to get revenge by stealing God's children from Him. The way he started this was by talking to Eve, and being a master salesman, and deceiver he convinced her, and she in turn convinced Adam that they could know everything God knew about everything, mans ego is pride at its utmost, and they both went for it. God had told them personaly one to one that if they ate of that tree they would die. Now satan knew that God wouldn't physicaly kill them because He hadn't killed him, and his angels, so he mixed that truth in with his lie to convince Eve that she would be physicaly ok even if she ate of the tree, what he left out was the fact that when she did, she like himself would be cast out of God's presence, or in other words die to the personal relationship. satan had won the day but he didn't know the depth of God's love for His children, and all His creation which God had placed under Adams dominion. So God initiated a system of animal blood sacrifice and law designed to show all men how impossible it is for us by our own efforts to find our way back into a personal relationship with Him. In addition to this, His law demonstrates, His purity, and convicts all men of sin, and if we have enough desire in us to find our way back to Him the law can keep us from going so far away from Him that we go past the point of no return. All things are done in His time, and He had determined the exact time that He would reveal The Depth Of His Love for all of us, and initiate His plan for our salvation process back to The Father, child relationship with Him. He Himself became the only sacrifice that would not only outwardly cover as sin, as with the animals skins for Adam, and Eve but would make it possible for the consience to be purged of all past sins, and make it possible to exercise our freewill to choose, which was lost in the garden. The blood for that process had to be pure, and because the childrens blood comes from the father, He had to be the sacrificial lamb. The reason so many struggle with this is demonstrated at Adam, and Eves response when God asked them why they were hiding. Instead of confessing what they had done, they started the blame game, Adam blamed Eve, and Eve blamed satan. Be sure of this thing, satan has given man so many subtle ways to justify sin that we have believe the lie that we can't live just like Christ did while He was here, and that is the most dangerous deception he has given us. This is why it so important for us to follow God's instructions in The Bible as to the way back to that personal relationship. He pomises we can do it, that it will be the hardest thing we will ever do on this pilgrimage, that He will always be there, and that He will never allow satan to tempt us above what we can handle. His way is The Bible, The Holy Spirit, meditation in His Scriptures all the time, and continuous prayer. The first thing that happens when we make a decision to do this is satan saying that is impossible, but there are those who have done it, and some who are doing their best to practice His presence always, and when He said in Scripture that all things are possible with Him, that means we can. Hope I am not to long winded here but there is so much more that could be said. Don't give up.

[Osiris]

Osiris,

God created good, and evil because He had a purpose for them. He was going to create man in His image which means man would have a freewill to make decisions.

What is free will? If there evidence that free will exists?

That was the purpose for the good and evil. God is the father of all fathers, and He loves with unconditional love, and His desire like that of any parent is that His children love Him unconditionaly.

If this were true, Hell would not exist.

All the Angels, As well as Adam, and Eve were created perfect, and had a personal relationship with The Father, and satan was the first to exercise his freewill to and chose his pride over the love of God.

Did he choose pride? I don't believe freewill exists, so I don't really think that he chose pride himself.

And another question, where did Satan's sin come from?

If the sin came from within, then he wasn't really perfect (not his fault).

If the sin came from outside, then were did the sin from that outside source come from?

If you keep asking this ultimately you will arrive at a starting point which would have to be God. And remember, if the sin came from within, then that being wasn't really perfect to begin with.

When God put those two trees in the garden He establised mans freewill choices. satan had been cast out with 1/3 of the angels, and he was determined to get revenge by stealing God's children from Him. The way he started this was by talking to Eve, and being a master salesman, and deceiver he convinced her, and she in turn convinced Adam that they could know everything God knew about everything, mans ego is pride at its utmost, and they both went for it. God had told them personaly one to one that if they ate of that tree they would die. Now satan knew that God wouldn't physicaly kill them because He hadn't killed him, and his angels, so he mixed that truth in with his lie to convince Eve that she would be physicaly ok even if she ate of the tree, what he left out was the fact that when she did, she like himself would be cast out of God's presence, or in other words die to the personal relationship.

I can relate to some of the things you are saying, but I would have to say that some of these things would have to be your opinions on this matter, for I believe that Adam and Eve ate the fruit because they were gullible rather than having pride. For if they had pride, where did this pride come from, if it's within, then they really weren't perfect to begin with.

satan had won the day but he didn't know the depth of God's love for His children, and all His creation which God had placed under Adams dominion. So God initiated a system of animal blood sacrifice and law designed to show all men how impossible it is for us by our own efforts to find our way back into a personal relationship with Him.

Why spill blood? Couldn't God have done it without spilling the blood of innocent animals? Why not a dance?

In addition to this, His law demonstrates, His purity, and convicts all men of sin, and if we have enough desire in us to find our way back to Him the law can keep us from going so far away from Him that we go past the point of no return.

I know this concept is really hardwired into christianity, but I fail to see the justice in which God condems all for what one person did.

All things are done in His time, and He had determined the exact time that He would reveal The Depth Of His Love for all of us, and initiate His plan for our salvation process back to The Father, child relationship with Him. He Himself became the only sacrifice that would not only outwardly cover as sin, as with the animals skins for Adam, and Eve but would make it possible for the consience to be purged of all past sins, and make it possible to exercise our freewill to choose, which was lost in the garden.

So, we don't have freewill now? (although I don't think this concept exists)

The blood for that process had to be pure, and because the childrens blood comes from the father, He had to be the sacrificial lamb.

Why kill? Isn't this a sin? Wouldn't God's concept of returning us to perfection consist on sinning? Two wrongs don't make a right.

The reason so many struggle with this is demonstrated at Adam, and Eves response when God asked them why they were hiding. Instead of confessing what they had done, they started the blame game, Adam blamed Eve, and Eve blamed satan. Be sure of this thing, satan has given man so many subtle ways to justify sin that we have believe the lie that we can't live just like Christ did while He was here, and that is the most dangerous deception he has given us.

But isn't this blaming Satan for what we do?

I don't lie, and if I ever did, I wouldn't blame it on someone else; I don't think that one has to be christian to be honest.

This is why it so important for us to follow God's instructions in The Bible as to the way back to that personal relationship. He pomises we can do it, that it will be the hardest thing we will ever do on this pilgrimage, that He will always be there, and that He will never allow satan to tempt us above what we can handle. His way is The Bible, The Holy Spirit, meditation in His Scriptures all the time, and continuous prayer. The first thing that happens when we make a decision to do this is satan saying that is impossible, but there are those who have done it, and some who are doing their best to practice His presence always, and when He said in Scripture that all things are possible with Him, that means we can.

I know this doesn't have anything to do with christianity, but what you are saying reminds me of buddhism.

Hope I am not to long winded here but there is so much more that could be said. Don't give up.

Thank you 'His son', I won't give up.

[His son]

Osiris,

If you can't accept the fact that you have the freewill to choose, then you will never be able to accept, anything. You exercised you freewill when you chose to respond the way you did, and your whole life is the result of the freewill choices you have made from the time you were able to reason for yourself. Whether you want to accept it or not your whole life is written in The Bible, and is summerized in the blessings and cursings in Deuteronomy. Unless someone can physicaly control you, no one can force you to do something you choose not to do.

[Osiris]

Osiris,

If you can't accept the fact that you have the freewill to choose, then you will never be able to accept, anything.

Not necessarily, I only choose what I think I should choose and so do you.

You exercised you freewill when you chose to respond the way you did,

Do you think that a computer program has free will because it is able to respond with its output?

and your whole life is the result of the freewill choices you have made from the time you were able to reason for yourself.

I think a person is the product of the environment.

Example would be, I don't choose what language is my native language, my environment chooses it for me. I don't choose if I am born in a poor family, the environment chooses it for me. If my parents didn't teach me ethics or I was not educated, most likely I will turn into a criminal.

What I've learned is that, even when you think you have control, you cannot choose anything but what appeals to you, how is that free will?

Whether you want to accept it or not your whole life is written in The Bible, and is summerized in the blessings and cursings in Deuteronomy.

Is this a fact, or is it an assumption?

Unless someone can physicaly control you, no one can force you to do something you choose not to do.

That is somewhat correct, not even yourself can force yourself to do something you might want to do. Try this experiment, try believing in Santa Claus, believe that he is real and that he exists. Can you honestly believe that Santa exists even if you choose to? The thing is, once your mind knows that you can't believe, you won't, you have no free will over that, your mind is the one in control. So, you think you have control of what you can believe, you will never honestly believe in Santa Claus unless some information makes you think other wise. Same for me, I won't be able to believe either until I acquire certain information and so far, I have not found it yet.

[AllforJesustheLord]

One thing to remember is that God is God, and He knows best, God is in charge, and if we as people do not realize the blessing we can receive from God we resist those things which are most important, I am sharing a secret which if you have God's Spirit, you can understand. If you choose to turn things around then you are doing as your father satan, and you will find out that God is God, and God means alpowerful, and no one can defeat Him, now we can know that God is good, also, because He choose people to be able to have room for repentance, so this can be done so we would be blessed, and receive The things of God, but no man knows the things of God, but The Spirit knows The things of God, so through His Spirit we can understand many things. Be not deceived, if you sin you shall reap the results of your sin. Which is death, spiritual death which leads also to physical death, Christ said if you live, and believe in Him, you shall never die, that means spiritually, and physically. Unless God wants you to die physically, so that we would know the honor of following Christ. In the natural this seems foolish, but if someone is blessed they can see, if they do not follow Christ, they will suffer far more after there death, the purpose of sufferring is somewhat a mystery to me, but if any desire to live godly in Christ Jesus they shall suffer persecution, and so we want to follow God to get away from sin, for whosoever suffers ceases from sin. God wants us to make the same choice He made, to not allow corruption to stay within ourselves. Whosoever does choose corruption, will experience the wrath of God. Now in the understanding of satan being first to sin this is true, then Adam sinned, I was trying to give an explanation which maybe was misunderstood. You see no one is better then God, and God is stronger then all evil put together, why one might say, well, because God is the strength, and evil is weakness. Do you want to stay in weakness if so, then that is where you are at in weakness. If you want scripture the scripture is God made Satan, and God made Adam, Adam has The way back from sin, through Christ all people have The Way back from sin, Jesus Christ the Only Begotten Son of God, God is showing us mercy through His Son, when we see Him we see The Father, The Father loves everyone, and wants all to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. May YaHWeH in Jesus Christ's name bless you, so you may be free from sin, which is disobedience to God. Amayn, Amen.

Edited June 9, 2004 by AllforJesustheLord

[Osiris]

One thing to remember is that God is God, and He knows best, God is in charge, and if we as people do not realize the blessing we can receive from God we resist those things which are most important,

Also, if you don't honestly believe in Santa Claus, he won't give you a gift but instead he'll give you a coal... You also have to know that Santa knows if you are naughty or nice.

If I knew God was real, I wouldn't be doubting his existance. Do you have any proof (not beliefs/opinions) that he exists so I can know as well, because they way you are going about it is that you assume that I know God exists and then remind me of what he is capable of; remember, I doubt that God exists and telling me things such as "God knows best" won't help me. Do you have proof that God knows best?

I am sharing a secret which if you have God's Spirit, you can understand.

If I have God's Spirit, would I be asking these questions?

If you choose to turn things around then you are doing as your father satan,

Thank you for the insult, I guess he is only my father right?

and you will find out that God is God, and God means alpowerful, and no one can defeat Him,

If Satan is smarter than the smartest human, why would he go against God? I think he must be mentally retarded, would God judge a person with mental dissabilities?

now we can know that God is good, also, because He choose people to be able to have room for repentance, so this can be done so we would be blessed, and receive The things of God, but no man knows the things of God, but The Spirit knows The things of God, so through His Spirit we can understand many things.

But sadly, only some christians have the spirit of God.

Be not deceived, if you sin you shall reap the results of your sin. Which is death, spiritual death which leads also to physical death, Christ said if you live, and believe in Him, you shall never die, that means spiritually, and physically. Unless God wants you to do, so that we would know the honor of following Christ.

The only sin I have is disbelief...

In the natural this seems foolish, but if someone is blessed they can see, if they do not follow Christ, they will suffer far more after there death,

And how does someone get blessed?

You fail to see the logic that people that didn't follow christ could not help for their disbelief, if they knew Christ was the truth, why would they choose other wise?

the purpose of sufferring is somewhat a mystery to me, but if any desire to live godly in Christ Jesus they shall suffer persecution, and so we want to follow God to get away from sin, for whosoever suffers ceasing from sin. God wants us to make the same choice He made, to not allow corruption to stay within ourselves. Whosoever does, will experience the wrath of God.

The punishment should fit the crime, any crime humans do here on earth would not deserve eternity, not even Hitler. You do know that punishment is so that a being can learn from it's mistakes and can become a better person (towards progression). How is punishment of hell make a person progress? Hell is more like vengance rather than a punishment.

Now in the understanding of satan being first to sin this is true, then Adam sinned, I was trying to give an explanation which maybe was misunderstood.  You see no one is better then God, and God is stronger then all evil put together, why one might say, well, because God is the strength, and evil is weakness. Do you want to stay in weakness if so, then that is where you are at in weakness. May YaHWeH in Jesus Christ's name bless you, so you may be free from sin, which is disobedience to God. Amayn, Amen.

I can easily say myself that God is stronger than everything, or that superman is stronger than everything, or that Goku is the strongest, comic books have their whole story line based on good is greater than evil. Do I have any evidence of that? Remember you are assuming that I know that God exists, I do not.

[AllforJesustheLord]

So you do not believe in God? You see if you believe that the Israelites were God's choosen people then you can see through there scriptures that Christ is prophesied, that He would come, and suffer, and die, and rise again the third day, so all would be saved, from the fact that they were not having fellowship with The One ELoHeeM(God), if you do not believe, then wait, pray, to God, and ask Christ come into your heart, and see what happens, The Kingdom is in power, and if you join The Kingdom you will experience the Wonderful presence of God through His Only begotten Son Jesus Christ, that is if you believe He rose from The dead, and that He is alive, I tell you He has appeared to me, and spoke to me, and told me things, I have seen Him, He is alive, and He is The Lord, and God, the one who is, and who was, and who is to come, He is The One, who is I am in everyway, He has been, and will ever be.

[His son]

All of the universe testifies of God, His written word has been proved in the early histories of mankind, the miracles He did in Egypt The Prophecies fulfilled in Christ's life. The 500 plus witnesses that He appeared to after His resurection etc. etc. etc.. There is one Sripture that you should realy think about before you of your own freewill choose to disbelieve God's word.

Rom 14:11-12

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

(KJV)

When God says everyone that means you to.

[Guest shadow2b]

-Also, Jesus also made a false prophecy,

Mark 9:1

And Jesus was saying to them, "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power."

Would this mean Jesus was not a true prophet?

-JESUS DID NOT SPEAK A FALSE--PROPHECY!!!!--

------------------------------

-JOHN.21:vss.20.Thru.24----------

-Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which

-also leaned on his breast at supper,and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth

-thee?-Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 

-Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow

-thou me.Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that

-disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will

-that he tarry till I come, what is that  to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth

-of these things, and wrote these -things: and we know that his testimony is true.

-The Disciple Named:*JOHN* IS NOT DEAD!!!-SO, The prophecy IS NOT A LIE---