Daniel.... study question i need help with

[whatsitmean]

I do not have the background to know when conversative/evangelical/fundamentalist  scholars started teaching  that these weeks are weeks of years,

You can look at Leviticus 25 to get this information. It was not a new teaching or something recent.

The seventy years in Babylon were because they had not kept the seven year sabbaths for 490 years (7x70). (2 Chronicles 36:21) This was the subject of Daniels prayer of chapter 9. When would the 70 years end?

and therefore 490 years, and that they prophecy to the very day when Jesus Christ started his public 3 1/2 year ministry. I just went thru <2 Chronicles 34:1-36:23> and the books of Ezra and Nehemiah,  as scholars debate the "when" the 70 weeks started. I am using "The Daniel Papers", a booklet available from Radio Bible Class [www.rbc.org] as one of my study references again. I  had asked on another board some months back that if this was understood by scholars, then why didn't the New Testament use this chronological dating to give a fulfillment of Jesus Christ being the Messiah?

Not the day He started His ministry, but the triumphant entry. A very good reference on this is The Coming Prince by Sir Robert Anderson. I would say this was not specifically given in the NT because God does not keep the calendar and therefore it is not infallible. However if you you consider Simeon in Luke ch. 2, you might gather that this was partially the source of his revelation concerning the coming of Jesus. Like Daniel, he had read the book, counted the years and knew he would be that close. The Holy Spirit then assured him he would see the child before he died. God is a rewarder of those who diligenty seek Him.

Also consider that Jesus did make reference to this prophesy in Luke 19:42:

Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

Then he told of the destruction of the city because they had failed to know the prophesy and count the days and know it was Him.

The day of the triumphant entry was the 173,880th day. (7x69x360) Psalm 118:24 speaks of this day. Because the crowd quoted from this psalm the Pharisees told Jesus to rebuke his disciples becasue they were in fact proclaiming Him to be the Messiah. But Jesus said if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

Those espousing the pretribulation rapture [or even the midtribulation] of The Church teach that Daniel's 70th week is still future. <Daniel 9:27>. That 7 years of tribulation awaits the world. The Great Tribulation

That is correct.

[AllforJesustheLord]

The day of the triumphant entry was the 173,880th day. (7x69x360) Psalm 118:24 speaks of this day. Because the crowd quoted from this psalm the Pharisees told Jesus to rebuke his disciples becasue they were in fact proclaiming Him to be the Messiah. But Jesus said if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

I am not understanding what you are saying here. Can you help me to understand, also can you tell me how they do that right now, when they use the 70, and 7, how do they fiquire this out, I have been wanting to know this for some time.

[whatsitmean]

I can't explain it in much more detail than I have, but I will try to give a little more. There is so much, shall I say- lack of agreement on these things that one must pick their way through it rather cautiously. Where I really got started on this was from Chuck Missler.

To understand the 70 7's I guess you start in Leviticus 25:1-6.

Lev 25:1  And the LORD spake unto Moses in mount Sinai, saying,

Lev 25:2  Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a Sabbath unto the LORD.

Lev 25:3  Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof;

Lev 25:4  But in the seventh year shall be a Sabbath of rest unto the land, a Sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.

Lev 25:5  That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.

Lev 25:6  And the sabbath of the land shall be meat for you; for thee, and for thy servant, and for thy maid, and for thy hired servant, and for thy stranger that sojourneth with thee,

From the time they crossed into in land, they were to keep a Sabbath year as well as a Sabbath week. They never did that. God let it 'slide' for 490 years or till they had missed 70 Sabbath years. The land had 70 years of rest coming and God sent Israel into captivity to fulfill the period.

2Ch 36:21

To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.

Daniel was taken as a youth to Babylon. In his later years, he knew, from reading the book of Jeremiah, that the time to return was getting close.

Dan 9:2

In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

I have heard several people say that this message he received is the key prophesy to understanding all the end time events. If you get this one wrong, you probably be wrong in the rest of your eschatology and ecclesiology (BTW).

In the message from the angel (v. 24-27) he is told "seventy sevens" are determined for your people. They are broken up into parts: seven weeks, then 62 more weeks, and one remaining week. The first period covers the rebuilding the city, 49 years. Then 62 weeks, 434 years till the "Messiah be cut off", that is killed but not for Himself. (These are 360 day years because that is how long a year was at that time.)

Then the city and the sanctuary would be destroyed for the second time. Then it mentions a covenant that lasts one week, 7 years, 2520 days which is again divided into two 1260 day periods, but the second period will be shortened (Mat 24:22, Mar 13:20. This is final week, is believed to be still future because there has been no covenant and no abomination etc. as yet since the temple was destroyed.

I hope that helps. Did you ask if they keep this Sabbath year now? What I was told is that when the Sabbath year comes they lease their land to a non-Jew and thus make the law of no effect.

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

This may help.

When i was a baby in Christ {born-again at age 36 in 1980}i speed-read a "ton" of books trying to catch up. Especially in end-time prophecy.I was early-on believing [i quess] that the Rapture was to be in September of 1981--based a lot on Hal Lindsey's teachings re Jesus Christ's "this generation"<Matthew 24;Mark 13;Luke 21> and Israel becoming a nation in 1948. Generation being 40 years long and Tribulation being 7 years [=<Daniel 9:27>] last week. Therefore 1948 plus 40 - 7 =1981.

Anyway, i got exposed to a lot of other teachings re <Daniel 9:27>. One of them being the outrage against separating this last "week"=7 Years from the 70 weeks/490 years. That a simple reading of <Daniel 9:27> would say that Jesus Christ confirmed the covenant with many for 1 week and in the middle of the week caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. That His 3 1/2 year ministry bgan the 70th week and by His Crucifixion he caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. And that it was NOT the antichrist to come who would confirm and then break a 7 year treaty with Israel. And then some teachings say, therefore, that only the last 3 1/2 years of the 70th week remain.

Since the Roman General Titus destroyed Jesusalem and the temple in 70 A.D., this 70 A.D. date does not directly support any specific chronology for the 490 years.

From all my studies there is a lot of scholarship on many various view of <Daniel 9:24-27> and merit in each.

Interestingly to me [not being a scholar and slow to learn and quick to forget], a brother in Christ gave me <Matthew 1:1> as his favorite Scripture. Take a look at that-has given me a lot to think about. as to "...this generation" and what did Jesus Christ mean.

I believe with all my heart that "All Scripture..." from <2Timothy3:16-17> means <Genesis 1:1> thru <Revelation 22:21>. In other words, for ANY doctrine. Especially including the last days chronology or lack thereof.

[whatsitmean]

There are two princes in this passage, "the Messiah the Prince" and "the people of the prince that shall come". The first is Jesus of course. The second is Titus. His father had become Caesar during the siege of Jerusalem, thus making Titus a prince. But it wasn't Titus that destroyed the temple. His orders were to save the temple, but when they finally broke the Jewish resistance, and the Jews fought so hard the army torched the temple melting the gold which ran into the cracks of the floor thus making it necessary to un-build it stone by stone to recover the gold.

This article tells the story.

The Destruction of the Second Temple

The gold was later used by Titus's father to build the famous Roman coliseum in which thousands of Christians died. They recently discovered a plaque stating this. How true it is for much of the world today that prefers sports to serving God.

'Generation' does have a broader meaning than just 40 years, but I am little uncertain about that too.

I was never too fond of Hal Lindsey, but Chuck Missler does teach the same doctrine. It's just personality I guess. From my study this is the best solution, that the 70th week is yet future and the church will be gone before it begins.