The Deity of Christ

[Guest shiloh357]

Again, Romans 5:12-19 says otherwise. Like you said, the Bible tells all that we are supposed to know. So that is a passage you are responsible for knowing. Here are some others you need to know. Psalms 51:5, 58:3; Jer 17:9; Job 14:1-4; Jn 3:5-6; Romans 1:21; 2:1-29; 3:9-19; 5:12; 6:19-20, 7:18, 24; 8:7; Eph 2:1-3, 11-12; 4:18-22; Col 1:21; Jas 4:4.

Check your references

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

This is one person it doesn

[Guest shiloh357]

This is what I believe.

Within mans heart is the desire to sin.

I know of only one who didn't sin,I think you know Him too.

Adam knew right from wrong, God punished Adam after eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God would not punish someone for doing something if they had no idea what they were doing was wrong.

When the Bible says Adam knew his wife it means he was intimate with her. The tree is called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

What Adam did was gave man the intimate knowledge of good and evil. He awoke a desire to sin within man.

Man is born with this desire because of Adam. All men will sin and all men need a redeemer.

How do you address the New Testament teaching that man is born in a sinful condition (not just a desire to sin) and is unable, apart from God, to remedy this condition??

How do you adress young babies and young children who have not grown to an age where they can understand and accept Christ. Are they condemed to eternal punishment?

I personally do not believe that they would be. God is fair and just and will handle all people within that framework.

[Botz]

Mike..

In the mind of God. (Just like I can say of a person I now who has passed on. They are still with me I think about them. This doesn

[traveller]

Yes - I think that's it Botz. I think he's sayin that Jesus is a created being that happened when God said "Let there be light." He's saying that "light" was Jesus. Up until then Jesus ws simply a thought.

Do I have it right, mike?

[traveller]

I was going by what you said earlier mike.

QUOTE

Can you just explain to me how you believe all things were created \'through\' the Messiah, and not \'by\' the Messiah.

Botz,

Sorry, for any confusion ,I realy appreicate any help you can provide about posting on the board.

I just figured out I can hit

[Ovedya]

This is what I believe.

Within mans heart is the desire to sin.

Okay, but where did that desire come from? Desire is defined as a longing or a craving for something that brings satisfaction or enjoyment. So if man desires to sin (in order to bring satisfaction or enjoyment), then there must logically be something within man to drive that desire.

I would contend that what drives man's desire to sin is the nature of sin itself. Paul said in Romans 7 that there is a "law warring in my members," and in that chapter he personifies sin, he "puts a face" to sin itself. In Romans 7 Paul is saying that this law in his members actually causes him to do the things which he strives by the law (the Mosaic law) not to do. We call that today, the "sin nature." It is an inherent aspect of man which was passed down from Adam, I would argue genetically passed down from Adam, to all of mankind.

Adam knew right from wrong, God punished Adam after eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God would not punish someone for doing something if they had no idea what they were doing was wrong.

Actually the knowledge of right and wrong needn't at all be a part of the equation. You are making it so without the need. God only commanded that man not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, He did not actually tell Adam it was wrong. He did give Adam a consequence of eating the tree. It was up to Adam to decide whether the benefits were worth the risk. Although Adam certainly was created with a very basic understanding of right and wrong, he did not have the element of knowing evil.Right and wrong were strictly based on Adam's dependence upon God.

When the Bible says Adam knew his wife it means he was intimate with her. The tree is called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The two terms don't connect. I fail to see where you are making such a connection. Surely you're not implying that the knowledge granted by the tree of knowledge has any relation to Adam's having sexual relations with Eve. That would be absurd to say the least.

What Adam did was gave man the intimate knowledge of good and evil. He awoke a desire to sin within man.

No. Actually you are only half right. Something was transferred to man metabolically by the fruit of the tree of knowledge. That transference was the nature of sin. To say that Adam "awoke a desire to sin within man" implies that the desire to sin was already there, but dormant. God would never have created Adam with a dormant desire to sin.

Man is born with this desire because of Adam. All men will sin and all men need a redeemer.

All men will sin because all men have sin. So not only is there a need for a redeemer to save us from our sins, there is the need for a redeemer to save us daily from our innate sin, our sin nature. Some Christians, even many Christians, only have a Savior from their sins. They do not see the need for a Savior who will, through a process of God's impartation of the divine life, transform man into the same image as Christ, and save man daily from sin.

How do you adress young babies and young children who have not grown to an age where they can understand and accept Christ. Are they condemed to eternal punishment?

I would repeat the question to you. Earlier in this thread you contended that there was insufficient evidence in the Bible to believe in the deity of Christ. Now how would you deal with the issue of children, considering the fact that there is less direct evidence in the Bible that children have an "age of accountability"? This is a separate issue, but I wish to make a point with this. Have you formulated in your mind from Scripture that children are exempt from God's judgment? By what do you make such a presumption? How do you reconcile that presumption with what you have previously argued regarding the deity of Christ?

I have an answer for you with regard to this issue. I do not believe that infants, children to a certain age are judged. However, my belief concerning this issue is based upon the circumstantial evidence presented by the Bible. The issue is never addressed directly. I want to know, though, if you believe the same as I do, how you can reconcile that belief with your argument regarding the lack of direct evidence from Scripture that Jesus is not God?

In short, the belief that children do not suffer judgment is based upon circumstantial evidence. Yet you have contended that circumstantial evidence is not enough to qualify the deity of Christ. How do you reconcile these two polar opposites?

[Guest shiloh357]

You asked me once, (probably more than once) what parts of the Bible do I believe and what parts do I have suspicions about.

I don

[Botz]

Hi Mike.

So am I to asume that you believe Jesus never existed in any form at all before the time He was born of a woman?

[Ovedya]

I

[Guest shiloh357]

John 3:5-6 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Where is this saying Man is born spiritual dead separated from God.?

*sigh* For the 100th time, no one verse or passage has all of the truth on a given subject. It is when we examine all of the passages together that the truth comes to bear. I did not say EACH passage says that mankind is born in sin. it really is a simple concept mike. I understand the need on your part to ignore it, though.

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

This is concerning