The Deity of Christ

[Ovedya]

This is a good start. Since we have differing opinions on

[Guest shiloh357]

I repeat the challenge. Can you define Jesus, only quoting scripture, without an external vocabulary?

Cliff

Cliff, the problem is that you twist the vocablulary. I can provide Scripture all day long. You reject the Deity of Jesus, and are trying to retro-fit the the Bible to come into line with your "theology." This is further complicated by your sloppy handling of Greek.

It is clear from our exchanges that you possess no skill in the Greek language and are basically a parrot off of someone else's poisonous doctrine and lack of knowledge in Greek as well.

God is our Savior

1 Timothy 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,

2Cor 5:18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

(Mat 1:21)

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

(Joh 14:6)

Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Act 4:10-12)

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

(1Jn 5:11-13)

He is still a man

Romans 8:34

Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died

[tinsnail]

My contention is that Jesus is a man in whom God dwells.

Because God dwells in him, when you see him, you see the Father.

Because he is the reason for all things, all things exist through him.

Because he did everything that his father asked, he manifested the word of God to the world.

God has given great authority unto man.

He can receive worship. He can raise the dead. He can have a will that can be really tempted. He can die on the cross and be abandoned there by God.

He was born, obeyed his father, died, overcame death and lives forever. He was sent by God to do His will.

[Ovedya]

My contention is that Jesus is a man in whom God dwells.

I am also a man in whom God dwells. Does that make me like Jesus?

Because God dwells in him, when you see him, you see the Father.

Then when you see me, you see the Father.

Because he is the reason for all things, all things exist through him.

All thing subsist in Him. He is not the reason for all things. Actually, according to the Biblical revelation concerning creation we are the reason that God created all things. Pertaining to the Son, all things are "unto Him," meaning that He is the agent through which all things were created, and He is the final authority in all of creation.

Because he did everything that his father asked, he manifested the word of God to the world.

That contradicts John 1:1, which says, "In the beginning was the word." Since that is prior to His incarnation, what Jesus did could not have qualified Him to "manifest the word of God." Jesus literally is the Word of God. He is God defined.

God has given great authority unto man.

He can receive worship. He can raise the dead. He can have a will that can be really tempted. He can die on the cross and be abandoned there by God.

He was born, obeyed his father, died, overcame death and lives forever. He was sent by God to do His will.

This is absolutely contrary to the Scriptures. God has not given such authority to any man He gave it to one man, that is Jesus, the Son of God in the flesh and the Only Begotten Son in eternity, as a member of the Triune Godhead.

[tinsnail]

I guess you are right. This is indeed a waste of time. It is all an accumulation of fine points, and I do not see them in the same way that you folks do.

Adieu...

[Ovedya]

Really? Can I close the thread?

[Guest shiloh357]

My contention is that Jesus is a man in whom God dwells.

No one said He wasn't. The problem is that you mean that Jesus is JUST a man, and not God. THAT is where we take issue with you.

Because he is the reason for all things, all things exist through him.

The Bible does not say Jesus is the reason for all things. You play with words and redefine them to suit your agenda. Furthermore the Bible says that Jesus is the one who upholds all things and that all things exist IN HIM. That defies Jesus being only human.

Because he did everything that his father asked, he manifested the word of God to the world.

John 1 says that Jesus is both the Light of the World and Word of God made flesh.

God has given great authority unto man.

Jesus claimed to have ALL authority.

He can receive worship. He can raise the dead.

Which makes Him God. Only God can receive worship and share glory with the Father.

He was born, obeyed his father, died, overcame death and lives forever. He was sent by God to do His will.

None of which is an argument against His deity.

I guess you are right. This is indeed a waste of time. It is all an accumulation of fine points, and I do not see them in the same way that you folks do.

It is not "fine points" at all. The Deity of Jesus is one of the main points of the Christian faith against which you cannot provide anything that amounts to an adequate refutation.

[RebekahDavid]

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

pretty simple and something no one else can say

Acts 4 : 10Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

[Guest shiloh357]

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

pretty simple and something no one else can say

Acts 4 : 10Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

That is an excellent point, Rebekah! Jesus claimed to be the embodiment of truth AND also claimed to be eternal life (zoe). He also claimed to be the resurrection and the Life (zoe). Jesus claims to be far more than just a man.

[Grungekid]

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

pretty simple and something no one else can say

Acts 4 : 10Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

That is an excellent point, Rebekah! Jesus claimed to be the embodiment of truth AND also claimed to be eternal life (zoe). He also claimed to be the resurrection and the Life (zoe). Jesus claims to be far more than just a man.

Through the course of several gospels, if I'm not mistaken. After reading Paul's epistles, there really can't be any doubts about the Biblical validity of Christ's place in the Trinity.

Look, if Jesus isn't God, then all of Christianity is blasphemy: venerating a human agent of the Divine over the Divine Himself.