The Deity of Christ

[EricH]

i agree

here is another

John 8: 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

John 8: 58

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am. Many site this, claiming Christ is saying He is,

[RebekahDavid]

Hi Mike...if you consider what it is that actually sets G-d apart and defines Him as G-d, I think the same gradual process of revelation that dawned on the disciples will dawn on you. Here's praying. Botz

Let's look at what the Disciples said

Matthew 8:27 But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him! (Would they marvel if God calmed the sea?)

Matthew 16:13-17. When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (The Christ, not God, Christ told Peter he was correct)

Matthew 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. (No difference between how they would honor God, then how they would honor Moses and Elias)

Matthew 21:20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! (Would they marvel that God could do this?)

Mark 6:49-51 But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out: For they all saw him, and were troubled. And immediately he talked with them, and saith unto them, Be of good cheer: it is I; be not afraid. And he went up unto them into the ship; and the wind ceased: and they were sore amazed in themselves beyond measure, and wondered. (Same as Matt.21:20)

Mark 8:23-25 23. And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly. (Would God need two attempts to heal?)

Luke 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people (A prophet not God)

blessings mike your posts about the disciples wondering clearly shows exactly what Botz was saying

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

edited to add when the Lord asks them "who do you say i am?" it is not meant as clarification for Him on what they know but so that they will search their hearts as to their answers.

[traveller]

Mark 8:23-25 23. And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly. (Would God need two attempts to heal?)

As we say in Texas, "this ain't your first rodeo, is it?"

mike - I will take the verse quoted above. You're only reading from the flesh. You're not seeing the spiritual application. This is true in most of what you've posted. Do you not see the spiritual truth that Jesus was showing to His disciples? Of course He could have healed with one touch. Actually, He did most His miracles that way. In this instance, however, He was revealing something to them. There is a whole lot going on here, from Chapter 6 to 8, where Jesus was revealing to them His plan of redemption. And, just as it is in healing the blind man, it is a process. If you will notice, immediately after healing the blind man, Jesus told them

Mar 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and [of] the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

See? And shortly before the blind man He asked them "Having eyes, see ye not?"

Do you not see what I am revealing to you? Do you not see that I am going to open all eyes?

When Jesus taught, He spoke, then He showed. Here He is showing that we start out spiritually blind. That the day is coming (resurrection - rebirth) when our eyes will be opened, but we will still see through a glass darkly. Finally, we will be made to see clearly.

There are other reasons why Jesus said things, and did things, beyond the surface.

Now - I want to ask you straight out. Are you playing a game with us? Have you had any intention of reasoning the words of God here? Or are you on a self propelled mission? I apologize for being so blunt, mike, but the hour draws late.

[EricH]

I will also take it that since you have not responded to the grammatical issues I raised, you don't really have a response to them. That is unfortunate. When I hold a position, and someone presents a challenge, I want to understand it to make sure I believe the correct thing.

[traveller]

The hour is late.

I understand there is deep meaning in God

[traveller]

mike - it doesn't bother me in the least that the disciples didn't shout from the rooftops that they were hanging out with God. They had no clue. They were looking for a Messiah, one to take over politically. They couldn't even see that they needed a Savior, much less recognize Him when He stood in front of them and performed miracle after miracle. He told them repeatedly about His mission, what He was about - yet still they didn't get it. So how could they know He was God in the flesh as they walked along the road?

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Who is this verse talking about, mike?

[Guest shiloh357]

I will try to explain my understanding on the veses you used, Please forgive the length

14. Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

When Ahaz, was King of Judah, Damascus and Samaria came against Jerusalem. Isaiah gave the above verse as a sign. The sign would be a sign for Ahaz. Why would God give a sign to the King that would have a very far in the future fulfillment?

The problem with your question is that it assumes a virigin gave birth in the very time period the prophecy was given. Well then it is left to YOU to explain why Matthew cites this very prophecy as being about Jesus. Jesus was born of a virgin according to Matthew 1:23:

All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel" (which means, God with us).

(Matthew 1:22-23)

The New Testament which YOU claim to believe says that this prophecy was about Jesus. Is the New Testament wrong?

You quote 7:14, but let

[Guest shiloh357]

You wrote ,

[jmwhalen]

There are many proofs of coarse but one of my favorites that you haven't mentioned yet is...

HE calmed the seas. In ancient times, as with today, there were many magicians and sorcerers BUT none of them could control the seas. The sea was looked upon by the Jews as a great abyss and was greatly feared. ONLY God could calm the sea.

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Wayne "... hast spoken well,"...hast well said..."(Exodus 10:29,John 4:17).

(bold is my emphasis)

“And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep. And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish. And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm. But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!” Mt. 8:24-27

“And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full. And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish? And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?” Mark 4:37-41

"“Now it came to pass on a certain day, that he went into a ship with his disciples: and he said unto them, Let us go over unto the other side of the lake. And they launched forth. But as they sailed he fell asleep: and there came down a storm of wind on the lake; and they were filled with water, and were in jeopardy. And they came to him, and awoke him, saying, Master, master, we perish. Then he arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm. And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him. “ Luke 8:22-25

Compare with Exodus 14:21–Moses as a “type” of the Lord Jesus Christ:

“And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided.” Exodus 14:21

"“O give thanks unto the LORD, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever…..He maketh the storm a calm, so that the waves thereof are still.” Psalms 107:1, 29).

“He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries.” Psalms 135:7

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“But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary. And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea. And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.”Matthew 14:24-32

“And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he cometh unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them. But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out: For they all saw him, and were troubled. And immediately he talked with them, and saith unto them, Be of good cheer: it is I; be not afraid. And he went up unto them into the ship; and the wind ceased: and they were sore amazed in themselves beyond measure, and wondered.” Mark 6:48:51

“And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew. So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid.” John 6:18-19

Compare with:

“Then Job answered and said, I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?... Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.” Job 9:1, 2, 8

“Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? “ Proverbs 30:4

I can "tell", and will answer: The Lord Jesus Christ is “his son’s name”, and the Lord Jesus Christ is God. And everyone, one day, will humbled themselves, and will acknowledge this fact, as it is written:

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. “ Philippians 2:5-11

In and with Christ,

In the Lord,

John M. Whalen

[traveller]

VERY nice post, John "friend of Wayne" Whalen.

Very nice, indeed.