Which "We" or "us" do he mean?

[kross]

If you look at the Greek for this text, "Many are called, but few are chosen" you will see that the same word translated The Called, The elect, The Chosen is translated here as chosen.

The more understandable interpretation of the scripture is, "Many are called, but few are The Called". (Or The Chosen, The Elect)

Explain the difference between someone who is actually saved and someone who is chosen.

Your use of the scripture from Timothy is a little out of context. Paul is teaching Timothy that GOD wants people from all incomes and positions to be saved, not every person on earth. If he was sying that, then he would conflict with JESUS' statement that all that the FATHER has given HIM will come to HIM..

"All incomes and positions".....wouldn't that pretty much include everyone?

1 Timothy 2

1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,

2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,

4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

I think your understanding of the word "should" in modern vernacular is possibly standing in the way of full understanding.

I don't think it is.

You may want to do a study of the Greek word here.

I think I'm good right where I'm at.

When I was a child, my mother would stick her head out the door and shout, keith, kenny, david, jerry, time for dinner. The entire neighbor hood was "called" but only a few were "The Called". That is what this scripture says. The whole world is called, only thpse who are chosen are "The Called"

I explained the use of "All men" in the passage. HE HAS some people amoungst all walks of life and we are not to decide that if someone is rich that they are not HIS. So we pray for all men that those who are HIS are not left out.

The Greek word for should is a positive tense. It means tht it is something intended and certain.

But, you are correct, you are good where you are.

Y0u specifically said that the first few scriptures in Ephesians clearly teach that those of us who are saved, are predestined to be so, by GOD, before the foundations of the earth. Why would you then argue against that?

There are hundreds of passages that refer to Christians as Elect, Chosen, Called all of which indicate they are saved by an act of GOD and not of the flesh. Paul even stated that he preached the word against his will, and by the will of GOD.

[Guest man]

When I was a child, my mother would stick her head out the door and shout, keith, kenny, david, jerry, time for dinner. The entire neighbor hood was "called" but only a few were "The Called". That is what this scripture says. The whole world is called, only thpse who are chosen are "The Called"

No, she didn't call the entire neighborhood, she only called the 4 of you.

Matthew 22

14

[Guest zabby]

Hello my reply to all of this is that study is good however we must come like a little child..... A little child is innocent and should be care free.. They do not understand sentence structurd or context or many of the other tools we use to study God's word they just read and accept it as truth the way they understand it at reading and you know what ... God honors them, protects them and helps them grow. So I recommend we come as a child before him...

I THINK SOMETIMES WE TRY TO COMPLICATE THINGS TO MUCH.... THUS THE OLD SONG JUST AS I AM I COME.. AMEN

Edited October 31, 2008 by zabby

[kross]

When I was a child, my mother would stick her head out the door and shout, keith, kenny, david, jerry, time for dinner. The entire neighbor hood was "called" but only a few were "The Called". That is what this scripture says. The whole world is called, only thpse who are chosen are "The Called"

No, she didn't call the entire neighborhood, she only called the 4 of you.

Matthew 22

14

[Guest man]

I agree with you that I have likely bent this scripture to fit what all the rest of scripture teaches. I have torn it apart, put it back together,

You can't do that.

You can't twist scripture in order to make it fit into your way of thinking.

Doing so makes you a false teacher. You're not teaching the Word, you're teaching a distorted twisted version of the truth.

[kross]

I agree with you that I have likely bent this scripture to fit what all the rest of scripture teaches. I have torn it apart, put it back together,

You can't do that.

You can't twist scripture in order to make it fit into your way of thinking.

Doing so makes you a false teacher. You're not teaching the Word, you're teaching a distorted twisted version of the truth.

You even took that out of the context of what where it was written. Through study and hard work, I have come to understand that this verse does not say what I thought it said when I understood it as you do now. It is the only verse in all of scripture that truly is difficalt to understand in the light of the 100+ scriptures that teach election and predestination.

[kross]

Hello my reply to all of this is that study is good however we must come like a little child..... A little child is innocent and should be care free.. They do not understand sentence structurd or context or many of the other tools we use to study God's word they just read and accept it as truth the way they understand it at reading and you know what ... God honors them, protects them and helps them grow. So I recommend we come as a child before him...

I THINK SOMETIMES WE TRY TO COMPLICATE THINGS TO MUCH.... THUS THE OLD SONG JUST AS I AM I COME.. AMEN

Yes, we should come as a child, and then we should grow into mature Christians, rightly dividing the word of truth.

[Guest shiloh357]

I agree with you that I have likely bent this scripture to fit what all the rest of scripture teaches. I have torn it apart, put it back together,

You can't do that.

You can't twist scripture in order to make it fit into your way of thinking.

Doing so makes you a false teacher. You're not teaching the Word, you're teaching a distorted twisted version of the truth.

You even took that out of the context of what where it was written. Through study and hard work, I have come to understand that this verse does not say what I thought it said when I understood it as you do now. It is the only verse in all of scripture that truly is difficalt to understand in the light of the 100+ scriptures that teach election and predestination.

the biblical doctrines of election and predestine pertain to what God has predestined Christians to become. The unbiblical doctrine of "Predestination" is a man made myth that asserts that God predestines some sinners to be saved.

[Guest zabby]

Hello my reply to all of this is that study is good however we must come like a little child..... A little child is innocent and should be care free.. They do not understand sentence structurd or context or many of the other tools we use to study God's word they just read and accept it as truth the way they understand it at reading and you know what ... God honors them, protects them and helps them grow. So I recommend we come as a child before him...

I THINK SOMETIMES WE TRY TO COMPLICATE THINGS TO MUCH.... THUS THE OLD SONG JUST AS I AM I COME.. AMEN

Yes, we should come as a child, and then we should grow into mature Christians, rightly dividing the word of truth

Yes I agree and I know mature Christians do not fuss over words.. In fact it genders strife .. I agree we should always be growing

[Guest shiloh357]

In the beginning of each letter/epistle is a salutation of who the letter is written to. Therefore, every place in the letter where the word "We" or "Us" is used, it must be inferred that it means the group who the author has written to that the author considers himself a part of.

So, taken to the point, "We" or "US" refers ONLY to the saints/ the Saved/ Those who are in CHRIST. When a person reads the letters from Paul, that person needs to understand that this letter is written specifically to them. It is a letter speifically written in such a way that "We" and "US" means the reader (if the reader is saved) and Paul. It can not be understood any other way. It is absolutely a violation of english (or Greek) writing laws to change the meaning of those words in the course of reading a letter.

Well if you operate from the assumption that words like "We" or "us" only refers to "the group who the author has written to," then it would only refer to original audiences.

You are trying to create a false exclucivity that it does not appear Paul was trying to communicate. I can use terms like "us" or "we" in terms that do not exclude anyone else.

I can say that Jesus died for "me" without excluding the guy down the street. The use of terms like "we" or "us" absent any qualifiers (which Paul never employs) is not exclusionary, generally speaking.