The problem with Prosperity teaching today....

[RigMedic]

The problem with a prosperity gospel message is that it does not paint a whole picture. It does not include the need for repentance, or Gods judgement or wrath upon sinners. What it does do, is create false converts who inevitably backslide.

Two men are on an airplane, one is offered a parachute and told to put it on because it will improve his flight. Well the man is skeptical of this at first, but then eventually, in an experimental fashion, decides to put on the parachute. He immediatly notices how heavy the parachute is on his back, and that he is unable to sit upright in his seat. However, he was told that the parachute would improve his flight so he waits it out a bit longer. He begins to notice that the other passengers are pointing at him, laughing and mocking him. Well, now the man is humiliated and what do you think he does? He slinks down in that seat, undoes the parachute and throws it to the floor. As far as he is concerned its gonna be a long time before he puts one of those back on. He was told that the parachute would improve his flight, but he was just left uncomfortable, achey, and humiliated. According to him he was told an outright lie, and rightly so!

Now the second man is offered a parachute but listen to what he is told. He is told to put on his parachute because at any moment he would be jumping out of the airplane at 25,000 feet. Well this guy puts on the parachute and immediatly feels the weight on his shoulders and he cant sit upright either. People on the plane begin to laugh and mock him, but he appears to not even notice. You see he doesn't care about that stuff because his mind is consumed with what would happen to him if he jumped out of that airplane without a parachute. It would mean certain death.

Lets look at their motives for putting on the parachute now.

The first man put on the parachute simply for life enhancement. This is is exactly what a prosperity gospel teaching does. It paints a picture that says that people have a Jesus shaped hole in their heart that only he can fill, and that he will bring you peace, love, joy, and lasting happiness. What this person will get will be exactly what Jesus has promised which is trials, tribulations, and persecution. They will feel lied to because they were promised all these wonderful fruits but instead recieved trials, tribulations, and persecution. Now, peace, love and joy are indeed fruits that come from knowing Christ, but it is not a legitimate way to make followers of Christ.

The second man put his parachute on simply to escape the jump to come. In the same way we need to put on the Lord Jesus Christ to escape OUR jump to come, and warn people about their jump to come. When we come to Jesus to escape the hell which we all rightly deserve, we dont notice the trials and tribulations, or the persecution. We instead embrace it. It makes us long for our jump. We have a deep rooted joy in Christ, that by his blood we are saved. By understanding that we need a saviour to escape wrath as opposed to make our life better, we will in turn repent. A prosperity teaching does not include repentance, which without one cannot be saved.

[Ovedya]

"The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life and that they may have it more abundantly."

Abundantly: Strongs - perissos(per-is-soss)

Superabundance, excessive, overflowing, surplus, over and above, more than enough, profuse, extroadinary, above the ordinary, more than sufficient.

It seems your implication is that Jesus' statement implies that His purpose in incarnation was to provide superabundantly for the lives, the livelihoods, of the believers. But actually you are focussing on the wrong word in the Greek.

The word to be focused on should be "life." In the Greek there are at least three words which are rendered "life" in the translation. One word is "Bios" which describes the natural life, the things which support our life and living on this earth. The second is "Psuche" which describes the soul, the inner part of man with the mind, emotion, and will as its components. The third word for "life" in the Greek is "zoe," which is the eternal and uncreated life of God. For example, when Jesus said, "I am the Way, the truth and the life" the word He used was "zoe."

Zoe is the same word used here in John 10:10. Jesus, in His incarnation, came that we, His believers, may have the eternal life of God, and that we would have it "superabundantly."

So you think my analysis of His prosperity toward us (Believers) is out of kilter?

Another thing Ovedya...

Are the Saints that came before us many moons ago, less informed with the Bible because they didn't have infomative Bible books at their disposal? We have the beauty of "double checking", analysing...whereas it was not the case for them.

You correct me in my reading of words concerning the verses, yet I gaurantee those past Saints would have read them as I have.

Who's right, who's wrong or are we all right?

Can you guarantee that those past saints would have interpreted the Lord's speaking the same way that you did?

How can you guarantee that?

Using simple logic with the language it is obvious that the Lord was not talking about the natural life. Since those that were listening to Him speak were alive, they had breath, they were able to think, feel and move; and they had a living, they had places to eat, sleep, etc.; how could the Lor dhave been talking about either the soul or the soul-life?

The manner in which the Lord presented Himself in this passage, first as the door (v. 7), and then showing that He is actually the Way through the door (v. 11, 12-16), clearly reveals that He is not talking about anything earthly such as prosperity of the soul or of the natural life.

[Guest HIS girl]

"The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life and that they may have it more abundantly."

Abundantly: Strongs - perissos(per-is-soss)

Superabundance, excessive, overflowing, surplus, over and above, more than enough, profuse, extroadinary, above the ordinary, more than sufficient.

It seems your implication is that Jesus' statement implies that His purpose in incarnation was to provide superabundantly for the lives, the livelihoods, of the believers. But actually you are focussing on the wrong word in the Greek.

The word to be focused on should be "life." In the Greek there are at least three words which are rendered "life" in the translation. One word is "Bios" which describes the natural life, the things which support our life and living on this earth. The second is "Psuche" which describes the soul, the inner part of man with the mind, emotion, and will as its components. The third word for "life" in the Greek is "zoe," which is the eternal and uncreated life of God. For example, when Jesus said, "I am the Way, the truth and the life" the word He used was "zoe."

Zoe is the same word used here in John 10:10. Jesus, in His incarnation, came that we, His believers, may have the eternal life of God, and that we would have it "superabundantly."

So you think my analysis of His prosperity toward us (Believers) is out of kilter?

Another thing Ovedya...

Are the Saints that came before us many moons ago, less informed with the Bible because they didn't have infomative Bible books at their disposal? We have the beauty of "double checking", analysing...whereas it was not the case for them.

You correct me in my reading of words concerning the verses, yet I gaurantee those past Saints would have read them as I have.

Who's right, who's wrong or are we all right?

Can you guarantee that those past saints would have interpreted the Lord's speaking the same way that you did?

How can you guarantee that?

Using simple logic with the language it is obvious that the Lord was not talking about the natural life. Since those that were listening to Him speak were alive, they had breath, they were able to think, feel and move; and they had a living, they had places to eat, sleep, etc.; how could the Lor dhave been talking about either the soul or the soul-life?

The manner in which the Lord presented Himself in this passage, first as the door (v. 7), and then showing that He is actually the Way through the door (v. 11, 12-16), clearly reveals that He is not talking about anything earthly such as prosperity of the soul or of the natural life.

Are you saying my thinking is out whack?

I am led by the Holy Spirit Ovedya.

[Ovedya]

Are you saying my thinking is out whack?

I am led by the Holy Spirit Ovedya.

Sorry.

Did I ever use the words "Your thinking is out of whack"?

[Guest HIS girl]

Are you saying my thinking is out whack?

I am led by the Holy Spirit Ovedya.

Sorry.

Did I ever use the words "Your thinking is out of whack"?

Do you think my reading of these verses are incorrect?

[Ovedya]

Are you saying my thinking is out whack?

I am led by the Holy Spirit Ovedya.

Sorry.

Did I ever use the words "Your thinking is out of whack"?

Do you think my reading of these verses are incorrect?

I didn't write that. I wrote that your emphasis was not correct. One could read your post and determine that its intent was to interpret a different meaning than the verse actually conveys.

[Guest HIS girl]

Are you saying my thinking is out whack?

I am led by the Holy Spirit Ovedya.

Sorry.

Did I ever use the words "Your thinking is out of whack"?

Do you think my reading of these verses are incorrect?

I didn't write that. I wrote that your emphasis was not correct. One could read your post and determine that its intent was to interpret a different meaning than the verse actually conveys.

Hmmm....

Really.....?

[stacey c]

Sorry RigMedic, I don't know how to copy the one line I wanted to respond to in your post. But your last statement that prosperity teaching does not teach about repentence. Wher did this idea come from or who?

I was under the teaching of a very annointed man of God who taught alot about prosperity and faith, and I assure you God is the the center, the all in all of this teaching. How can you have any kind of faith or prosperity of anykind in this life with out a firm commitment and dedicated life to our Lord and Savior?

God bless you, stacey c

[Ovedya]

This verse was quoted in the OP: "Beloved, concerning all things I wish that you may prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers. (3 John 2).

See, "the gospel of [financial and physical] prosperity" hinges itself on interpretations of certain verses, which cause those verses to say something that they do not.

The verse above does not say or promise that the believers all prosper in all things. It says that he (John) wishes (or prays in some translations) that the believers would prosper in all things, as their soul prospers. Promoters of the "prosperity gospel" and Word-Faith teachers, teach that this verse is a promise of prosperity. It simply is not.

God causes His people to prosper in a multitude of ways, sometimes financially, sometimes in their health, but most of the time in their spirit. Regardless of the means by which God's people prosper, it has nothing to do with their "level of faith" or their ability to "speak prosperity" into their lives.

[Ovedya]

Are you saying my thinking is out whack?

I am led by the Holy Spirit Ovedya.

Sorry.

Did I ever use the words "Your thinking is out of whack"?

Do you think my reading of these verses are incorrect?

I didn't write that. I wrote that your emphasis was not correct. One could read your post and determine that its intent was to interpret a different meaning than the verse actually conveys.

Hmmm....

Really.....?

That's how I read it anyway.

Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to respond.