God and evil.

[EricH]

'JCISGD'

4. God placed temptation in Adam and Eves way.

I do not adhere to this way of thinking.

I am of the camp that Adam and Eve were thinking people and had the full capacity to use their brains as well as the freewill as given to them by God.

If God "placed" temptation in front of man to "set him up", then that is not the loving God I am acquainted with.

This is a great opnion but this is not what the Bible declares. God caused the fall and Adam had no choice or freewill. He is a loving God no matter what you believe.

Actually the opnion stated is very Biblical. The only time human beings were truly free was before the decision to sin.

[Guest HIS girl]

Benoni - God does not tempt anyone.

[Gauntlet]

BUT

then I thought of Heaven - and the absence of evil - we will be LIVING and being completely sustained by God's goodness - we will SEE and be AWARE of His Majesty - no need for evil to prove it.

The concept of evil does not exist within the heart of a new born child.

Original Sin is the inheritance of every new born child. Eventually, we all lose our innocence and experience the truth of the human condition for what it really is. We all get corrupted by the fallen world in some way. This is what we call "growing up," a bittersweet thing. That's why the innocence of children is so beautiful and so precious. As adults, we can never have that kind of innocence again.

[EricH]

'JCISGD'

4. God placed temptation in Adam and Eves way.

I do not adhere to this way of thinking.

I am of the camp that Adam and Eve were thinking people and had the full capacity to use their brains as well as the freewill as given to them by God.

If God "placed" temptation in front of man to "set him up", then that is not the loving God I am acquainted with.

This is a great opnion but this is not what the Bible declares. God caused the fall and Adam had no choice or freewill. He is a loving God no matter what you believe.

Actually the opnion stated is very Biblical. The only time human beings were truly free was before the decision to sin.

Well if it is soooo Biblical then chapter and verse please.

This is true, man has never been free sense the fall but where you are wrong is it was not man

[Guest HIS girl]

Benoni

Scripture says -

James 1 v 13: Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God", for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. NKJV

[Guest shiloh357]

God is sovereign and he is Lord over ALL things including the fall, including the curse and including the devil. The devil has no power at all unless God ordains it.

That does not mean that God "caused" the fall.

God took the blame for the curse, and the fall and He will also did it with hope. That is scriptural fact which I just posted. Romans 8:20 declares that God took the blame and Adam (man) had no choice.

No, God took the penalty of the curse on Himself. He did not take the blame for it.

Man has no choose, freewill to follow God; in fact the Bible teaches totally too contrary. It was God who caused the fall. And it is God who has a plan to fix it.

The Bible nowhere blames God for the fall of man. If God caused the fall then God could not have provided redemption. For God to cause the fall, it would make Him responsible for sin. In short, it would make God sinful and incapable of providing Himself as a sinless offering for man's sin.

Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. You (God) turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.

This passage does not mean that God causes men to sin. It refers to the fact that God causes the physical body of man to return to dust.

God knew Eve was going to sin long before she even was created; you see it is not the fall that matters it is the process of redemption God is after.

The fall very much matters, as it provides the context for why redemption was necessary.

[Guest HIS girl]

God caused the fall and Adam had no choice or freewill. - Benoni

Are you suggesting that God set up Adam and Eve?

Also, what is that Bible translation you use? NIRV? Who publishes it?

[Fez]

Psa 90:1 A Prayer of Moses, the man of God. Lord, you have been our dwelling place in all generations.

Psa 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.

Psa 90:3 You return man to dust and say, "Return, O children of man!"

My ESV on e-sword says dust. Not trying to be arguementative, or start a discussion about translations, just though I would find it for you. And the Greek meaning of destruction in this context (destruction - KJV version) means - crushed, literally to powder (Strongs Hebrew and Greek dictionaries), so I guess dust is a good representation of what Moses meant.

[Guest shiloh357]

Do me a favor... I gave you Romans 8:20 and Psalm 90 and you spun these verses and gave no scriptural backing to prove your point except for your bias opinion. Please back your claims with God's Word not your opinion.

I haven't "spun" anything. You said God took the blame. The Bible does not EVER say that. God never says the fall of man was his fault or responsibility.

The bible says in Galations 3:13 that we are redeemd from the curse of the law (spiritual death and separation from God) because Jesus took on the curse for us.

The Bible says in Isaiah 53 that he was pierced for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquity, chastised for our peace (reconcilation). All of Scripture says that God Himself, in the person of Jesus Christ, bore the penalty that God's justice demanded. Nowhere does the Bible say that God caused or willed the fall.

Man has no freewill to save him self; that is a scriptural fact. Romans 8:20 clearly declares God caused the fall and was not man's choice; chapter and verse please if you want to refute this solid scriptural fact?

Romans 8:20 is not referring to the fall of man and no competent, intelligent exegete will read it the way you present it. Paul is talking about the general condition of creation as the result man's inclination to sin. It does not say that God forced Adam to disobey Him. Because of man's willful inclination to sin, all of creation has been subjected the consequences of that choice.

The word "creation" in Rom. 8:20 is not referring solely to man but refers to the entire created order.

I saw no documentation that Ps 90 said anything to do with dust; the word destruction was used.

The word "destruction" is the word "dakkah" in Hebrew and refers to dust or powder. It refers to the fact that God has caused man to refturn to dust. It does not say that God turns (causes) man to act destructively (sin) which is the spin you appear to be putting on that verse.

To say that every act on the planet is ordained by God, is to make God responsible for every murder, rape, every act of sexual immorality, theft, racism, oppression, perscution and every act of idolatry and even the act of rejecting Christ. No true Christian will accept or believe your skewed "theology." Your view simply does not agree with true, biblical, New Testament Christianity.

[EricH]

God is sovereign and he is Lord over ALL things including the fall, including the curse and including the devil. The devil has no power at all unless God ordains it.

That does not mean that God "caused" the fall.

God took the blame for the curse, and the fall and He will also did it with hope. That is scriptural fact which I just posted. Romans 8:20 declares that God took the blame and Adam (man) had no choice.

No, God took the penalty of the curse on Himself. He did not take the blame for it.

Man has no choose, freewill to follow God; in fact the Bible teaches totally too contrary. It was God who caused the fall. And it is God who has a plan to fix it.

The Bible nowhere blames God for the fall of man. If God caused the fall then God could not have provided redemption. For God to cause the fall, it would make Him responsible for sin. In short, it would make God sinful and incapable of providing Himself as a sinless offering for man's sin.

Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. You (God) turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.

This passage does not mean that God causes men to sin. It refers to the fact that God causes the physical body of man to return to dust.

God knew Eve was going to sin long before she even was created; you see it is not the fall that matters it is the process of redemption God is after.

The fall very much matters, as it provides the context for why redemption was necessary.

Do me a favor... I gave you Romans 8:20 and Psalm 90 and you spun these verses and gave no scriptural backing to prove your point except for your bias opinion. Please back your claims with God's Word not your opinion.

Man has no freewill to save him self; that is a scriptural fact. Romans 8:20 clearly declares God caused the fall and was not man's choice; chapter and verse please if you want to refute this solid scriptural fact?

I saw no documentation that Ps 90 said anything to do with dust; the word destruction was used.

Romans 8:20 does not teach that. Romans 8:20 says that the rest of creation was subjected to futility because of the sinful choice of human beings. You have quoted the verse out of context