God and evil.

[EricH]

'JCISGD'

4. God placed temptation in Adam and Eves way.

I do not adhere to this way of thinking.

I am of the camp that Adam and Eve were thinking people and had the full capacity to use their brains as well as the freewill as given to them by God.

If God "placed" temptation in front of man to "set him up", then that is not the loving God I am acquainted with.

This is a great opnion but this is not what the Bible declares. God caused the fall and Adam had no choice or freewill. He is a loving God no matter what you believe.

Actually the opnion stated is very Biblical. The only time human beings were truly free was before the decision to sin.

Well if it is soooo Biblical then chapter and verse please.

This is true, man has never been free sense the fall but where you are wrong is it was not man

[Guest shiloh357]

Is god sovereign????? Or are you trying to tell me God is a puppet and Satan is sovereign?

Once again, your position stands in defiance to God's holiness. Your view of God's sovereignty is what I have heard referred to as the "hyper-sovereignty" position.

It is the view the EVERYTHING that happens is ordained by God, including every sin that man commit. If we were to accept this, then we have some real problems.

Why would a God who is Himself a God of absolute holiness want sin to exist in the first place?

The Bible teaches that God created this world and even us as an expression of His love. To say that God caused the fall means that God purposely severed fellowship with us, when it was that very fellowship we were created for in the first place.

What you are proposing is contrary to the love of God for man. All throughout the Bible, we have God constantly reaching out to man, calling man back to Himself. The entire Bible is the story of God's redemption of man.

You are claiming (perhaps without realizing it) that God created man in order to place him under bondage to curse Him with sin and then provide a plan of redemption which God also causes man to reject.

Why would God go to the trouble of creating a plan of redemption but at the same force man to reject it. Why would God waste His time in the Old Testament calling Israel to repentance while at the same time ordaining their rebellion against Him?

Your view of "sovereignty" is quite frankly internally inconsistent.

The proper understanding of God's sovereignty is that God is in control of the world and this world's system. The fact that God allows something to happen, does not necessarily mean that God approves, it much less ordains it. God allows lots of things, but He does not EVER claim to ordain or approve of sin.

[Guest shiloh357]

I am sorry Benoni, but there is nothing I can without me ending up repeating myself. Your approach demonstrates a really lack of skill in theology not to mention biblical hermeneutics. Your theology is nothing but a trainwreck, and I don't have time to sit and refute this unbiblical homespun drive.

You will believe what you want to. No one, so far, is being buying into this garbage. Most are smart enough not to.

If you want to believe in a god that ordains evil and sin and forces man to into living in sin, you have the right to believe it.

I, on the other hand, am a Christian and I believe the Bible. I will follow Christ, not your false teachings.

[Guest shiloh357]

I am sorry Benoni, but there is nothing I can without me ending up repeating myself. Your approach demonstrates a really lack of skill in theology not to mention biblical hermeneutics. Your theology is nothing but a trainwreck, and I don't have time to sit and refute this unbiblical homespun drive.

You will believe what you want to. No one, so far, is being buying into this garbage. Most are smart enough not to.

If you want to believe in a god that ordains evil and sin and forces man to into living in sin, you have the right to believe it.

I, on the other hand, am a Christian and I believe the Bible. I will follow Christ, not your false teachings.

Your right there is nothing you can say becasue your faith is not in God's Word but in your opinion...Yes all you do is repeat your opinion not based on God's Word.

biblical hermeneutics Chapter and verse?

You say my theology is nothing but a trainwreck, but you cannot back up your clams with nothing but your opinion.

If you believe in the Bible then how come I am the one quoteing the Bible and you are the one qoting dead traditions and opinion and rejecting God's Word.

You follow religion and reject Chrsit. The word Christ means anointing; what anointing are you following; Sauls?

I have not rejected the Bible at all. It is just a waste of time to talk to you since anything I say, biblical or not, will simply be demonized by you.

You are a waste of time. My time is better spent elsewhere on intelligent conversation.

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes I am a waiste of your time because I do not blindly follow your dead tradtions; I quote God's Word... You quote your opinion...

Maybe that is your problem you think you are so intellectual your intellect is all that matters so you totally reject God's Word and base your belief on some dead tradition and not what the Bible declares. And then you wonder why there are 10,000 different religions they are just like the Jews in Jesus day; Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered:

No you are a waste of time because you condemn anyone who sees the Bible differently than you do. Because of that, you are incapable meaningful conversation.

I would have no problem addressing you point for point, as I can easily show why I believe the Bible does not say what you say. But you are abusive and hateful and I really don't have the desire to spend hours crafting a theological response only to have you respond with nothing abusive condemnation for not accepting your teachings lock stock and barrell.

In short, you are incapable of genuine theological dialogue because all you want to do condemn others for not seeing it your way and I want nothing to do with you or your disgusting "theology."

[Shiloh62]

A little tolerace for our fellow brethren may be in order here guys.

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes I am a waiste of your time because I do not blindly follow your dead tradtions; I quote God's Word... You quote your opinion...

Maybe that is your problem you think you are so intellectual your intellect is all that matters so you totally reject God's Word and base your belief on some dead tradition and not what the Bible declares. And then you wonder why there are 10,000 different religions they are just like the Jews in Jesus day; Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered:

No you are a waste of time because you condemn anyone who sees the Bible differently than you do. Because of that, you are incapable meaningful conversation.

I would have no problem addressing you point for point, as I can easily show why I believe the Bible does not say what you say. But you are abusive and hateful and I really don't have the desire to spend hours crafting a theological response only to have you respond with nothing abusive condemnation for not accepting your teachings lock stock and barrell.

In short, you are incapable of genuine theological dialogue because all you want to do condemn others for not seeing it your way and I want nothing to do with you or your disgusting "theology."

You better look at the log in your own eye and read the very words you are trying to spin my way. I quote God's Word... You quote your opinion.

If you do not like the verse I give you give your opinion why you do not like it with no substance. You are the one with the hateful attitude and decided I am not worthy of your opinionated time.

The real problem here is I have stomped all over your false dogma using God

[Guest]

For God so loved the world,

that he gave his only begotten Son,

that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

>>>>>()<<<<<

Yes the entire Bible.... how God is reaching out to all of humanity for the redemption of man....

Amen!

And God Calls

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Isaiah 1:18

>>>>>()<<<<<

.... You see man was created dead....

All

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 2:7

Creation Was Good

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 1:31

But Man Still Did What Was Right In Their Own Eyes

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Genesis 3:6

And Still God Called

And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

Genesis 3:9

>>>>>()<<<<<

.... Dead in trustpasses and sin; because of the fall, man did not choose this death state; it was the sovereign hand of God on all of His creation. Have you ever saw a dead man see or do anything; this is double true with a spiritual dead man....

Man Sins

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Proverbs 8:36

And Still God Calls

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:13

>>>>>()<<<<<

Notice what God's Word declares about spiritual dead men....

Romans 3: 10 as it is written:

"None is righteous, no, not one;

11 no one understands;

no one seeks for God.

12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;

no one does good,

not even one."

13("Their throat is(an open grave;

they use their tongues to deceive."

"The venom of asps is under their lips."

Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)

Romans 3: 11 No one is wise. No one wants to know God.

12 They all have turned away from the straight road. Together they have gone the wrong way. No one does good, not even one person!

13 Their mouth is like an open grave. They have used their tongues to fool people. The poison of bad snakes is under their lips.

That is not what the Bible says,

[Shiloh62]

I have read this (not in exact words, but same context),

Because of evil in the World - we see the Majesty and Goodness of God MORE than if there was no evil present -

I had to think about that a few times to let it sink in...

BUT

then I thought of Heaven - and the absence of evil - we will be LIVING and being completely sustained by God's goodness - we will SEE and be AWARE of His Majesty - no need for evil to prove it.

Well put Hisgirl. Thank you.

[Guest]

When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Matthew 19:25-26

>>>>>()<<<<<

....but God is not calling all people now. Carnal man does not have the ability to come to God unless God draws them first.

But God

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 5:8

But God

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:15

But God

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 4:14

But God Shares His Glory With No One

He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

John 7:8

And The Glory Of The Kids Of Grace Is Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Galatians 6:4

And We Sing Out A Love Song

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Ephesians 5:19

A Love Song To Jesus

Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

Revelation 5:12

Singing I Love You LORD

I Love You