Sevenseas

I guess he wanted to be with his friends.....unbelievable but not surprising

MR. NICE: You seem to have a knack for defending your position by burdening other posters with things they never wrote, intended or intimated. I notice that you have done that over and over with Shiloh's posts. Now, you are doing so with the one response to your assertions that I addressed yesterday. Let's be honest here. I find it hard to believe that you fail to acknowledge I addressed the same belief you have concerning Jesus leaving partial diety in heaven, as have other posters. Rather, you attempt to divert my response to you concerning that ONE thing by trying to claim I have falsely accused you of stating that Jesus is not eternal...as per the highlighted text from your post above. I never stated He was not God. I stated he gave up part of His godhood so He would be like us on earth. Please use scripture to demonstrate what I claim to be heresy. It is one thing to claim someone is speaking heresy and another to prove it. Read my response to Butero. And voila, we have above in your own words, your belief that Jesus gave up 'part' of His deity. I gave two scripture references that indicate He placed Himself on the same plane as God while He was on earth as both God and man. My entire post addressed THAT belief. Diversion is a handy tactic, but it's not working here, so perhaps you could actually respond to what I wrote instead of threatening me with being a false witness. Of what spirit are you, that you are so accusatory and cannot actually respond in truth to what is written to you? I will also state that He did NOT live the life we were created to live. We were created to live sinlessly by our Creator in paradise...the Garden of Eden...and take care of the earth. We were not created to cast out devils, heal the sick or walk on water. These things Jesus did, He did as the Son of God sent to earth to be the perfect sacrifice that would be given once and for ALL time...holy and acceptable to God. The miracles were given to indicate the truth of the words Jesus spoke and to confirm His claims that He was indeed 'I AM' as He declared Himself...which you refuse to see or actually misunderstand...I am not sure which. We, can never live in a sinless state on this earth and the Bible does not indicate that we will. If that is what you believe, it is further indication of your private interpretation which is not biblical and is not from the Holy Spirit. Really? and how do you know that? You are really out on a limb here ascribing to yourself a better and more enduring faith than others have. It seems you align your faith with your personal interpretation and then judge others according to your own standards. You state if what you believe is true, then many will be lost and not saved. So then, the question becomes: How do you believe we are saved? I would seriously appreciate your answer to that question.

Cannot take one minute of that voice.

Why would Kerry or anyone else suddenly feel the need to change a name that has been used since we came into the knowledge of the existence of that group? mind you, name games have been going on for some months now...

The entire reason that God sent His Son, was because no other sacrifice could meet the requirements of God who is holy. No half deity...no half and half of anything. God required a perfect sacrifice...the entire OT system of sacrifices was only a temporary 'fix' until God Himself provided the sacrifice He required. As such, there is no possible interpretation that leaves even the smallest bit of room for diminishing the deity of Jesus Christ. To assume or say that Christ left part of His deity in heaven, is to put forward a poor understanding of the reason God sent His only Son in the first place. Where was the part of Christ's deity kept? In a chest? In another form? As an angel? The Bible puts no such teaching forward and truth be told, I have never heard anything like what you are attempting to convey Mr Nice. What you propose does remind me of Mormon or even Jehovah Witness doctrines: both of these cults go out of their way to diminish who Christ actually is and they both handily deny the Biblical teaching that Christ was both fully God and fully man. Jesus said that He and His Father are ONE...which is what made the religious leaders so angry....they wanted to kill Him because He put Himself on the same level as God, which they considered blasphemy. Here are two references for you which declare what Jesus said about Himself: Then came the Festival of Dedicationb at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” 25Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than allc ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.” Further, Jesus also referred to Himself by the same name God revealed Himself to Moses as : I AM Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” 57“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!” 58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. Jesus referred to Himself in the present tense as being constant, that is, no beginning or end...Abraham was born, yet Jesus says HE IS...I don't know if you can grasp that or not considering what you believe, but that is the truth of it So, while you, Mr Nice, insist that Jesus left part of Himself behind....doing what or in what form who knows....Jesus actually refers to Himself as fully God...made of the same substance and equal to and calls Himself by the same name...while on earth...fully God and fully man. I don't expect you to accept these passages.

or they could give her the Miss Congeniality award why don't countries with that attitude just keep their beauties at home and enjoy them there...what do they expect?

I'm going with discernment too. I know when I 'feel' a certain way, I should pray...it really does feel like agitation...but in my body rather then my mind...but with the same effect. I might even call it a 'pressure' that needs to be relieved and the only way to do that is to pray....I don't always do that though

that would be my answer to you as well Mr Nice

laugh...cry.....I'm not decided...who do you think you are addressing here? someone in grade 3? see, the problem is that you are not really discussing, you are teaching and I don't think you should be. That's just me being 100% up front honest

yeah, that really addresses an entire nation in captivity. righto Jesus teachings are spirit? nah...many of them are very practicle....did you know that Jesus actually ate after His resurrection?

What do you think?

Nah, I'm not talking about traditions or laws, either; just an attempt to apply the lessons Jesus taught In particular, I focused on the "breaking" aspect of these old, hard, inflexible wine skins, precisely because they were not able to change according to the new wine. I believe this "breaking" is a metaphor for the kind of double mindedness that comes from claiming to follow Jesus, but then explaining away his teachings. At times this dissonance can cause people to become irrational and quite angry, like what happened with the pharisees when Jesus exposed their various convenient doctrines and traditions of men. Look at Shiloh's example. He's created a situation where he's practically obligated to talk about his fasting simply because talk of food and/or health of some kind is pretty much a normal, every day occurrence and according to him, if someone brings up food while he is fasting then he feels some kind of responsibility to let them know about it. In this context, Jesus' command about taking steps to avoid letting others know we are fasting becomes pretty much useless since it doesn't matter how much oil we anoint ourselves with if we're just gonna talk about it anyway at the first mention (by someone other than ourselves, of course) of any topic which may even remotely relate to food. I've experienced this kind of convenient doctrine making with lots of different teachings of Jesus. When it comes to discipline and obedience most people seem to have all these reasons for exceptions to the standards. The exceptions become the rule and all you end up with are claims of Christianity without the substance. "There lips draw nigh to me but their heart is far from me". Interestingly enough, Jesus mentions another kind of breaking, where he talks about falling on the rock of his teachings and being broken, (presumably so that God can put the pieces back together again into a new creation). So there is a bad kind of breaking (i.e. the old bottles breaking as a result of resisting change) and a good kind of breaking (i.e. accepting the teachings of Jesus despite how painful the change may be for us). I didn't say that you were. That, is what Jesus was talking about and that is what the op is actually about even if you do not see that. I don't explain away Jesus teachings but neither do I add to them and that is not always easy. Which is why is why I need to understand to whom He was speaking and why in order to bring His rationale or teaching into my 21st C life. Why are you making people angry? Why do you goad them until they are angry by trying to get them to acknowledge that what you present is actually what they should do? I've read the entire thread twice and I am not taking sides, but is seems to me you are insisting on something that is just not in scritpure! Sorry, but as far as Shiloh goes, that is baloney what you say. He is responding to your irrantional and impossible defence of your stand and then you are trotting out yet another supposed area where he has deviated from what Jesus said. Listen, if I am fasting and I am invited for dinner...and that has happened...I would simply state it is inconvenient at the time...but I would appreciate another date? Further, within my family, I have made known to some I was fasting in order to have their help in areas where it was needed because I was fasting and I have done likewise. There is nothing wrong with that. If you cannot depend on and share with your brothers and sisters in Christ, then really, what do you have? You have so taken this out of context that I am almost in physical pain. You just cannot rip out scripture and insert like some kind of hodge podge presciption to substantiate and develop a teaching that is wrong to begin with and attempt to give it the import of the words of Christ Himself when He said no such thing. And how about Esther et al?

Salty...kindly supply the scripture that will agree with what you write above concerning fragments...you state that Jesus said the fragements from the feeding of the 5000 (or 3000) were leaven. I don't find that Jesus says those things in the Bible I have. Where did you read this?

I think you do not actually understand what Jesus was saying. Let's look at the first verse of Matthew 6: Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So, you might actually ask : Do you practice YOUR righteousness in front of others in order to be seen by them? If you do, THAT (nothing to do with fasting or any other observance, personal or corporate) means you will have no reward from God. Reading on, we find that Jesus gives instruction on giving...with the same emphasis. “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. Then, Jesus covers prayer...with the same emphasis “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. And after that, AFTER that, Jesus covers fasting...with the same emphasis “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 17But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. You are ADDING to the words of Christ...I am sure you do not really want to do that, but that is what you are doing as can be plainly seen from the above quotes. The entire emphasis is on self righteousness...whether one is giving, prayaing or fasting....it does not matter...those are three examples...many more can be given...the command, if you want to call it that, is most definately NOT about keeping fasting a secret...it is about fasting to be seen...or doing ANYTHING to be seen...that, is what God disapproves of. it is about wanting the best seat and the most honor. It is about bragging and showing off. It is about trying to appear like you know more than others. It is about shaking your head at how ignorant everyone else is...it is all that the Pharisees did and more. Here is an interesting question. How about the book of Esther? ALL the jews fasted...and every single jew knew that their neigbor jew was fasting and Esther was fasting. How can you fast corporately if fasting is to be kept a secret even if you have to lie, as you actually and strangely suggest in one post, to keep it a secret? Many churches today will call for a day of fasting...based on what they read in the book of Esther...now how are they going to do that if it is a BIG secret? Jesus never ever said keep fasting a secret even if you have to lie. Those are your words and you are simply wrong. The emphasis on not letting your right hand know what your left hand is doing, and keeping giving a secret, actually would have more basis for your claims regarding secrets, then what you are attemtping to define as Jesus words on fasting. However, going back to the first verse, we have what follows defined and if we deviate from that, then we loose sight of the fact that Jesus was defining avoiding self righteous...that, is what God considered the sin

It seems to me there has been some dubious teaching here with regards to the wineskins/new wine and fasting. Taking a better look, we find, in mark 2, that Jesus actually made THREE statements that are tied together, as follows: “No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. Otherwise, the new piece will pull away from the old, making the tear worse. 22And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins.” Mark 2 So then you have ask what is the common denominator here...what is Jesus saying Very very simple answer. Jesus was simply saying that you cannot mix old religious rituals with the way of faith in God that He represented. The background, is the twice weekly fast adopted by the Pharisees...even though the Mosaic law prescribed only one fast day on the Day of Atonement. Apparently, John's disciples were also in the habit of fasting. When asked why His diciples did not fast, Jesus replied with 3 parables. The first is the wedding feast parable...a bridgroom and his groomsmen. You don't fast at a wedding was what Jesus was saying...not while the bridegroom is with you...referring to Himself as the Bridegroom. Then He follows that with the garment parable and then the wineskin parable. So the op here is actually a broader subject then has been acknowledged. In order to actually understand the words of Christ, you have to LOOK AT THE WORDS OF CHRIST Don't leave any out and don't ADD to them...both of which seem to have been done here with a lack of rationale that leaves one scratching their heads and hoping that the author of the op does not actually teach this and is only putting it out there for discussion. The Pharisees were self righteous...hence they even added to the law. John's disciples were observing fasting not as hypocrites, but as followers of the law. So, we have both types represented. We have the self righteous and we have those who want to follow the law for salvation and Jesus says that neither way is acceptable. Jesus, as the fullfillment of the law, requires that we are filled with God's Holy Spirit...the new life in Christ...following traditions and laws is not new life and it is not faith.

So God has really been your Father then...and your brother and sister also So what does honor mean then? Does it mean you open yourself up to abuse or wickedness? Honoring does not mean you or anyone else should accept abuse or evil behavior....I have a very difficult parent to interact with myself. It has been very hard...I cannot totally walk away like everyone else has done and I have really wrestled with that relationship. I am not responsible for their actions....I am only responsible for my own. Personally, I think it would be a mistake for you to allow her access to your daughter without strict supervision...ie never leave the two of them alone together...and before that, I would really make sure I have guidance from the Holy Spirit to go ahead with even a limited amount of contact. Honoring does not mean that you never confront a parent about their abuse or set limits on how you interact with them. When I say confront, I don't mean yelling and being angry. I mean that truth is an indication of honesty and a desire to actually make amends. You forgive whether or not they ask for it, but don't accept bad behavior in the name of honor or love....that is not honoring. There is the story of Jonathan in the OT...he disobeyed his father in order to save David's life...I Samuel 20 tells that story. I hope this helps somewhat. I understand this is difficult and possibly painful and there are all the 'what ifs' but you are not responsible for your parents actions and while you can continue to pray and should pray (even for God to keep you and your child from harm) be careful and weigh what you are told and what you hear carefully before God. He knows everyone's hearts and what is really in them.

well that's actually blackmail if it's true IMO, there's more to it then that... I don't think Sharpton is a puppeteer...I think he pretty much answers to others and gets well paid for it

No but it saddens me that our president, the mayor of New York and the media train-wreck called MSNBC give this man any credibility. We will never get anywhere in race relations so long as the White House uses this man as an adviser to the president. IMO, things are going as planned...although many knee jerk reactions are not necessarily aware that they are fitting in rather nicely you can't have peace and order and understanding if you desire something entirely different

I am wondering just how the NYPD turning their backs on the mayor is going to translate into practicality I somehow do not think it is merely a symbolic measure...but I guess we'll see

ummm...you may want to consider that the earth will be destroyed. So, as OneLight said, we should look forward as the Bible states that no eye has seen and no ear has heard what God has prepared for those who love Him. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. II Peter 3:10

It's not sex that's hard...even fish can figure that out. It's the day to day living that makes or breaks a marriage.

What are you really asking?

The force is of course spirit....there is no life in the flesh without the spirit. It is our spirits that are dead and they need to be reconnected to our Creator...and God has made a way through His Son for that to happen. The world we do not see is real and interacts with this world. People dabble in it all the time...but we are warned in the Bible not to do such things. Evil spirits are real and they are happy to project any reality one desires, all the time deceving those who think they have tapped into some truth not available to those who do not seek it That's a trip down the wrong road. There are many spirits but God is not one of them. He is unique. He is not a spirit; he IS Spirit. He created all. You are flesh and blood and not made to live in a spiritual reality other then the one that God allows, through accepting His Son as your Savior. All other spiritual realities are detrimental to us as created beings and they will destroy your flesh and your life. Yes I'm serious He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. I John 5:12 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. I John 4:1 only One Way to legitimately enjoy a spiritual reality: Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives lifed because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because ofe his Spirit who lives in you. Romans 8

Hi FresnoJoe I guess you thought I was posting to you, but I was actually posting in response to the op...also joe ...kind of funny...two joes...

Hi Joe I will just add to what others have said...the 300 men were using caution...they were not imitating dogs. I have (literally) a pack of dogs...4 are low content wolf dogs...now they are more cautious then the 'regular' dogs because wolves are shy by nature (not the voracious killers they are sometimes portrayed to be...they are also intensely loyal and loving with their pack members...including the human ones) I don't believe that dogs had very high esteem in Israel either...dogs back then were not what we see today...but anyway, I think that the soldiers selected were using caution... which you would want to do in a war.