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Thank you for bringing up the topic LadyKay, this is a huge problem in our church. To be fair it is not being taught on the pulpit but the reality is that through a few of the families in our congregation our church culture is extrememly legalistic. We had thought that there was a chance for change and true freedom in Christ because we thought what we were seeing was a struggle with legalism but after over 15 years at this church we have come to see that there is no stuggle with legalisim, it is exactly they way they want it no matter what anyone else tries to reveal to them. Does that make sense? Anyway, we don't want to leave the church, we love each and every person there and love being part of the community but I think that the roots of legalism are just too deep and it is not good for us on a spiritual level.

We are so unprepared for this and the Liberals will not listen to any common sense from and sector. Billy Graham's quote is very apt.

Absolutely true And he has turned out to be far worse than I could even imagine! As bad as I thought it was going to be it has turned out to be so much worse

It is going to be a nightmare for everyone.....teachers, parents (those who care) police and most importantly the kids. While it will still be illegal for those under 18 or 19 (depending on what province you are in) to buy or sell pot it will not be illegal for 12 - 17 years to have pot. I used to wonder if Trudeau was a pawn or deliberately evil. I no longer wonder.

Really, really well said!

I totally agree with you but here in Canada....too many are liberal and are all for it and the rest well....just sit on their hands

As far as I know they are trying to put this law into affect in Canada I believe that Ontario has all ready started talking about it.

I am sorry I totally misunderstood what you said and have changed my response. You are exactly right!

What has sent my head reeling is how quickly everything has happened! How fast society itself has shifted over the last 50 years. Things that were once done in the dark are now done in the open and are celebrated and not only that but those that protest such happenings are now being vilified. Reading the Bible we know that this was coming but how fast it has happened is just staggering.

No, you are absolutely right about Stephen Harper, how I miss that man! It is sickening how quickly Trudeau has managed not only to put those new bills into effect but how he has divided this country and tanked our economy for at least two generations. All of that in less than 3 years.

Angels4u, I too am from Canada and can attest to what you are saying is going on in this country. Our current Prime Minister is openly hostile toward Christians and is doing his best to restrict our freedoms. But our country has been going this way for a long time. It is heartbreaking.

Jayne you are correct about the film called "Paul, Apostle of Christ" I don't know if Gibson is involved in this movie or not. I was talking about the movie The Passion of The Christ - Resurrection that is currently described as "in progress" it does sound like both Mel Gibson and Randall Wallace will be involved in it.

Passion of the Christ. There is a new one coming out that follows His Resurrection. Jim (not sure how to spell his last name and I don't want to butcher it) is again playing Jesus.

Thank you Yowm. Now I am not quite sure of what to do with the information, I personally will not join in the Sunday School Lesson, personally I think that a "Diet Plan" in Sunday School is so far away from what we should be doing that I can't even speak, what comes to mind is works, opening up judgement (self-righteous - of yourself and others) and a really shallow look at the Christian life. Secondly, this is not the first time that I have heard questionable things about Rick Warren. And his co-authors.....yikes. Am I off base here? I don't know how to approach the leader of this or if I should?

Has anyone heard of Daniel's Plan by Rich Warren? We have just started using it in our Sunday School at church and I am not feeling very comfortable with the idea of it (I missed 2 classes so I haven't seen it). Input? Thanks.

creativemechanic - I thought it was funny. I know a few people like that.....

I died an atheist (literally) and woke up as a believer. True story.

Made my day!

Agreed.

After reading all 7 pages a thought has occurred to me...would this same discussion be going on if we substituted adultery for homosexuality? What I mean to say is would there be any debate if we asked if a practicing adulterer should be baptized? Someone who refused to acknowledge that adultery was a sin and refused to stop committing adultery? Just a thought.

After reading this thread the question comes to mind is that if this is not an issue of cultural context then how did Jesus wear His hair? Was it long or was it in a brush cut or perhaps a "do" like Elvis wore? And what about His clothing? Do you think perhaps He wore jeans and a t-shirt with a blazer or perhaps he wore a full suit with a vest and tie, mabe even a bow tie? mmm....curious minds want to know!

Personally I am humble enough to hear God's truth regardless of who speaks it. After all even Balaam listened to a donkey! And no I am not calling us women donkeys! A female pastor may be a stumbling block for some and so in that case she should not be a Pastor there in order to not divide the church but if believers are will to accept the truth from her than she should stay. Everyone seems so bent on being right that no one is really interested in what is actually right. If it is God's truth, who am I to tell someone to stop? One last thing, on a bit of a side note (sorry addressing something someone said earlier in this discussion): I am told to submit to my husband, not ALL men.

With this logic...What if one thinks about and looks upon abusing their spouse...Is this adultery and a reason to divorce? If one thinks about and looks upon abusing their spouse than they should run and not walk to get counciling and seek forgiveness and a change of heart. And yes they have committed a sin against God and their spouse (rage and violence is a sin). God looks at our hearts and where are hearts dwell so eventually will our actions. We are children of God. Do you think any father would approve of their child being beaten? I think not. Do you think same father would tell his daughter to stay and get beaten because divorce is worse? If your answer is yes, that is slavery. You are absolutely correct Fez! I would also like to point out that Jesus blasted those who used the letter of the law to justify their own sins - in this case trying to force a spouse to stay in an abusive relationship because of what Christ said about divorce.

With this logic...What if one thinks about and looks upon abusing their spouse...Is this adultery and a reason to divorce? If one thinks about and looks upon abusing their spouse than they should run and not walk to get counciling and seek forgiveness and a change of heart. And yes they have committed a sin against God and their spouse (rage and violence is a sin). God looks at our hearts and where are hearts dwell so eventually will our actions. We are children of God. Do you think any father would approve of their child being beaten? I think not.

That was the question I was going to ask GE. Because I believe that Jesus made it pretty clear that anyone who looks at someone else with lustful eyes is committing adultry. And we also know that adultry = idolatry in God's eyes. Now I may be wrong but I feel that if one spouse abuses his/her spouse than they have commiteed adultry by betraying their vows, that they have exchanged their love for their spouse for their love of violence, power or whatever else is driving them. Sorry I thought that I was the poster right after Golden Eagles remark. This is what he said: I have followed this thread with interest. I'd like to ask a question if I may: What if a Christian divorces an abusive spouse who also claim to be a "Christian"? God bless, GE Sorry about the mix up. It is late and now I haven't read the entire thread because I thought GE's was the last one. Just too tired right now to make sense I guess. Night all.