Willa

The books that we have are the only ones that are entirely inspired by God. Many are fiction but they signed them with a familiar name to try to make them seem more credible. These forgeries are pretty easy to detect once you are really familiar with the real thing and are born again. So on TV like Nat Geo they talk about finding lost books of the Bible all the time. They are the forgeries--no real lost books have every shown up. The Catholic church also has some added books. Some are historical and good for information on the years between the time of Daniel and of Christ, but we still don't treat them as the Word of God.

No. We are told that we will be like the angels and that we we not marry. But we won't become angels. That is only a fairy tale that is often presented on TV.

Coheir, I think you may be confused here. The critical text is the one used by most modern scholars. It is based on the alexandrian group and especial the text found in Alexandria Egypt, alexandianus? The Byzantine majority text was used by Erasmus to create Textus Receptus. He was trying to create a better translation of the Vulgate when he made this translation into latan, including the Greek text beside it. However, in many cases he adjusted his greek text to correspond to readings of the church fathers and the vulgate used by the catholics. So it essentially is a new catholic bible which was based mostly on the Alexandrian majority texts, and modified to correspond to Vulgate. [ The Vulgate was translated into latin by Jerome from the old latin western manuscripts with the edits of later alexantrian manuscripts like vaticanius and new translations of the old testament directly from hebrew]. The third edition of Erasmus' greek notes was used as a basis for Textus Receptus, I believe. Wescott & Hort's translation of vaticanus in 1881 is the basis of the American Standard Version which has fewer revisions than modern translations. However, we should not cause those with weaker faith to stumble if they can trust no other version than KJV. It is more important that we read and believe God's Word.

Yes God has delivered us when we were first saved. Then He starts changing us into the likeness of Christ by helping us to shed bad attitudes and habits. Some of these occur instantly and some we struggle with, often for years. Then, once freed, we sometimes are again caught up in the yoke of bondage. Sometimes it is to man made rules or trying to keep the law in our flesh, sometimes it is to a sin we thought we were free of. Occasionally the struggle to overcome this time is even harder, I think this is to remind us lest we fall again and take the grace of God lightly. Often I have kicked and scolded myself for my failure long after I had confessed my sin and been forgiven. Then God reminded that He, not I had the final word and superior judgement. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. I so fear being out of fellowship with the Lord that I don't want to ever be in that place again. Just remember that He desires that loving fellowship much more than we do. And sometimes He does chasten those He loves so as to yield the peaceable fruit of righteousness.

Coheir and cletus, thank you. I forgot about my own struggles when I began. I needed a statement of faith such as the one in our own forum, but , due to my nature, I also needed the scriptures where they are found and to be able to read them in context. Once that foundation was laid, I needed to learn to be refilled and walk in the Spirit, as in Gal 5:16 and Eph. 8. Then I needed to fully surrender to Jesus as Lord, as doubting Thomas and others fell at His feet saying "My Lord and my God". Small group bible studes in my church helped me much in my growth, as did Bible Study Fellowship. We would go around the group saying what we thought the verses were saying and how it might apply to us, and I learned much from others as well. Then an expository teaching followed. Now I have a good expository Bible teacher for a pastor and often take notes. After that, personal growth is usually gained just through personal prayer and Bible study. Some people prefer devotionals like Streams in the Desert, which helped me when I was going through hard times. Others research and dig for answers in Scripture. Some read a bible that is made so that you read through it in a year. Often I read through a book of the Bible till some thought impacts me. Then I underline it and meditate on it throughout the day. Often I follow up the references as well when my curiosity is aroused. But always I ask the Lord to speak to me through His Word and to enlighten me. Often God has brought situations into my life where I had to apply the scripture to the situation, [such as turn the other cheek and bless those who persecute you and pray for those who spitefully use you], before He gave me more insight into His Word. In answer to your question, yes, we must be born again. John 3:5. --unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. v. 7 says that we can see the effects of this in peoples lives but can't nail down the coming and going of the Holy Spirit. So we look for changes in attitudes toward sin, God and salvation.

An ancient polar bear even! Fascinating! The abominable snowman is an ancient polar bear. Hummm

So what is your doctrinal question?

We inherited a dog that chewed up his master's bible. I have had two chewed on by other puppies, both Boston Terriers. They seemed to get over that by the time they were a year to 18 months old. Just teathing. So we gave them rawhide chew bones to work on instead. They like cow hoofs as well,, but they stink. Both are available at pet stors and feed and grain stores. I have to add that furniature cushions, a car arm rest, yarn, rubber bands and toilet paper have also been favorites as well as our kids' bubble gum left on dinner plates and wa strung from both paws and both ears.

My neighbor is a pastor and his son is autistic. His autism is much improved by God's grace. He is now at a Aspergers level and responds intelligently when spoken to; he loves the Lord. We have a young man at our church who also is autistic and saved. He prefers to listen to the sermon in the foyer where there is less distraction. Otherwise, he is there every sunday. We have had saved autistic people on our boards and one comes into the chat room occasionally. However, I am not sure about sociopaths who can't seem to discern right from wrong and have no remorse for the evil they have done. I have heard of seriel killers being saved, but since I have seen no fruit of repentance, it is hard to know if they are really saved. Some may be demon possessed???. Some who are severely retarded--pre school level--I believe can also be saved if they live up to the light given them. They just need to know that God loves them and forgives them for being bad when they ask Jesus to help them and come into their lives to be their best friend. They just need to be taught on their level. Those who are raised in a Christian home are sanctified by the believing parent 1Cor 7.

To me that pretty much sums it up. However, Hebrews also says we should not forsake the assemblying of ourselves together. Ususally Christians enjoy worshipping God with others, praising Him with thanksgiving, and good Bible teaching. So I would also encourage finding a good church that ministers to you.

Can you go for a short walk? Even a walk around the block or around your yard might help. Or open a window and watch the birds or small neighbor children playing--anything that is nature and involves fresh air. Can you get a pet? I love to watch fish in a tank. But our small dogs keep us amused as well. Cats are always fun to play with and can be very affectionate. So sorry you are having such difficulty. I don't get out as much anymore either and it is hard. NCN is indoors a lot too, and there are others who are in great pain and difficulty due to poor health. So sometimes we have to stop and list the things we can be thankful for, starting with the fact that Jesus died for us. Blessings, Willa

Vine's expository dictionary says faith, Pistis, is firm persuasion, a conviction based upon hearing [the word of God], is used in the NT always of faith in God or Christ, or things spiritual. trust trustworthyness what is believed a ground for faith, an assurance a pledge for fidelity The elements of faith in relationship to the invisible God and the corresponding verb pisteuo. 1 a firm conviction , producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation or truth 2 a personal surrender to Him 3. a conduct inspired by such surrender So the word varies a little bit in meaning according to the context. But as Hippie said, belief and trust can usually be used in place of faith. The word love in english can be just as confusing, but it is broken down better with different words by the greeks.. God's love is compassionate, sacrificial love. To us it may mean strong desire or strong friendship; so we have to figure out what it means by the context.

Sorry, I didn't notice the thread had been split. I also object to GE's chart, even though I have often referred to it. The first warning is that the RSV is deemed more accurate that King James and NKJV. My parents gave me a RSV in 1960 which I used for many years, until I was able to obtain a NASV. While I liked the RSV--it was very readable--It was hardly accurate. Translating virgin as young woman may have been one of the translations but it was a poor choice in view of a culture that would stone her should she be found to not be a virgin. NASV at least was more accurate for good doctrine and I used it until 2004. When NKJV was being read in church it was very easy to follow along with the NASV. I consider Youngs YLT to be more accurate than KJV, which was criticised in the 1600s as sacrificing accuracy for poetry. I learned that the KJV keeping Israel the apple of God's eye was in fact the pupil of His eye. Apple? Really? It is obvious that the person doing the assessment of these translations is comparing them to the critical text. But if the "newest and best" manuscript is corrupted by gnostics, as I strongly suspect, then we must rely on the more moderate critical texts used by Jerome when translating the Vulgate. A mod posted a link to www.studytoanswer.net/bibleversions/gnostic.html, where I learned much about gnostism and it influence. Or we can go to the better existing Byzantine majority texts. They were always the majority text even in the 2nd century and were copied widely and translated into other languages as well as used by the early church fathers in debating herecies and establishing doctrine. This version was retained by the Orthodox churches. Most early copies did not survive the Roman emporers edict to burn them all, which was not as strictly upheld in Egypt where alexandrian texts were placed in garbage dumps in old jars. The Catholic church kept their manuscripts for reading only by priests and they were not available to the public. The orthodox church made them available for all to read so they were freely copied by laity over the centuries. But they used cheap paparii which did not last the cenuries like vellum does. It is these copies for personal use that were not always accurate. But many early alexandrian fragments were also very inaccurate. It is often a long process to arrive at a concensus as to the most pure text. The greek translation of the Hebrew OT was used widely as well, and going back to the Hebrew manuscripts to translate into english makes more sense. The ALT 3 is based on the 2nd edition of the byzantine majority text, which is more refined and even more accurate than that which Erasmus used for the Textus receptus.. Analytical Litteral Translation 3 reads a lot like the AMP. The WEB translation is more thought to thought like NIV, but I sometimes refer to it. Beyond those two I don't refer to less litteral translations or any paraphrases. I have never read the NEV much but was uncomfortable with several renderings because they just didn't compute to me. A vault is a large safe in a bank, so I had to go to the dictionary already in Genesis. Then it still was awkward. So I will stick to NASV which is still considered more accurate and I am accustomed to it. I still use AMP a lot as well as Wuest's Expanded Translation. They do not omit "disputed" passages or place them in footnotes.

Even Paul who was taught by the Holy Spirit in the desert later checked with the apostles in Jeruselem to see if his doctrine was the same as theirs. They again approved of him. Apolos was taught the Word more correctly by Pricilla and Aquila. We all need the correction and the balance of the body of Christ. I also was taught by the Holy Spirit, but I had other teaching as well. Those that were not of God just sluffed off. Those that were of God explained other areas of the Bible as well, or I was required to put them into practice before God gave me more. It requires the real world to be able to turn the other cheek and lead a godly life. That way it becomes heart knowledge often learned the hard way and it keeps us from being prideful. Much of my teaching in the Spirit came with the help of Bible Study Fellowship, which started me off with praying about the meaning and to write down what it is saying to me at the moment. Some truths are instruction for our lives. Some are eternal insight into the nature of God. Some are doctrinal. Some are historical. It is easy to be a perfect Christian when we don't have to deal with real people. But as soon as a person who hates Christians must be dealt with, or a religious person with a bitter cold heart, or a Christian who is given to sin comes our way, and we are to love them all but respond to them according to Scripture, then our knowledge and love are put to the test. We must allow Christ in us to love these people and treat them in a compassionate but Godly way. We are intended to demonstrate God to the world. We are told that the sheep hear His voice; and He calls His own sheep by name and leads them out. And when He brings out His own sheep, He goes before them; and the sheep follow Him for they know His voice. John 10:3-4 v.14-16 NKJV All true believers have been called out by God and He calls us all by name. We all have seen God in some way. I see Him in scripture. We are all unique and special in God's eyes, but probably the martyrs are most beloved in God's eyes. It is not wise to boast in our experiences. Paul speaks of this in 2 Cor. 12:1-10. He preferred to boast in his infirmities and afflictions for Christ's sake. Note that these come for leading a godly life and for preaching the Gospel. They don't come because we are rude, hateful, self righteous or prideful. (Thinking of a JW whom I finally asked to leave because her hard heart and bad attitudes were just leading us in circles--she thought she would be rewarded for being asked to leave.) I can't help but think of Brother Lawrence and Practice of the Presence of God. It can be found online. I just reread it and find it more meaningful now, after years of living in God's Presence. I have so much to learn yet. I have to agree with those who prefer the text most used by textus receptus, the Byzantine used by Erasmus. And I prefer Young's Litteral Translation most often to King James, since he used the Textus Receptus as well. But I most often use NKJV, Amp., Expanded NT, and compare to Young's and NASV. Newer Byzantine texts are even better and more refined. It seems logical to me, do to my own experience in copying, that leaving out text is more common than adding it. And the "oldest and best" gnostic Alexandrian text from Alexandria Egypt is most suspect because of the fabrication of other so called gospels done by the Gnostic cult that dominated that area. It is more likely that they changed and eliminated Scripture to fit their doctirine like the Jehovah's Witnesses have done to the New World "Translation".

Usually prayer and fasting is to help us to hear and obey God more accurately. It humbles us and helps us to hear God's voice. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. When the scripture says this kind does not come out but by prayer and fasting, I always understood it to mean that the disciples would need to humble themselves to hear and obey God step by step to see him fully delivered. Perhaps during the prayer and fasting God would tell them how they should go about doing it.. Perhaps it was to impress on them that there was nothing that they could do of them selves, and to help them to lean fully on God. Andrew Wommack apparently subscribes to the Word of Faith doctrine, which I find to be in error. They over emphasize the need of faith in producing miracles and I have seen many condemned by Word of Faith pastors when a loved one died, saying the death was because their faith was not strong enough. This is just wrong.

While I do understand the meaning as others are using it, I always understood this to mean for ordination or consecration for service. Paul warns in other places not to promote men to leadership when they are brand new Christians so they will not be tempted by pride. But most new Christians are not ready to face the responsibility of leadership in a church and all the harassment and complaining a leader must endure. Verse 17 right before this verse had referred to the work of elders. 1 Tim, 3 gives qualifications for leadership, showing that they should be watched and tried to see if they meet the qualifications. Other places it mentions the gifts that God bestowed upon Timothy through the laying on of hands. God often equips with spiritual gifts when He consecrates people for service.` Perhaps participating in another man's sins would be done by ordaining a person they knew to be sinful and who did not meet the standards, and thereby seemingly condoning sin.

I have never heard of such a thing. The Holy Spirit is our helper. He is our guide and our comforter. We have the Scriptures as our guide as well. We are told to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and He will supply our needs. No I don't think a "destiny helper" is scriptural. A helpmate, a wife is scriptural. Perhaps that is what they are referring to. If not, let it go.

Duggerfan, you asked why Elihu was not condemned with Job's 3 accusing friends. It is answered in Job 32:1-3 So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. Then the wrath of Elihu---was aroused against Job; HIS WRATH WAS AROUSED BECAUSE HE JUSTIFIED HIMSELF RATHER THAN GOD. Also against his 3 friends his wrath was aroused, because they had found no answer and yet they had condemned Job. Then Elihu told Job that he had uttered words without knowledge in 35:16. [Job had declaired that in spite of his righteousnes God had taken away his justice. in 30:20-21 He even accuses God of not answering his cries and for being cruel to him.] In 33:23-30 Elihu even speaks of a Mediator who will ask God to redeem his soul and from the pit that he may be enlightened with the light of life. In 36 Elihu speaks of God's goodness, His being just, his power and majesty; then he speaks of God's wonderous works. That is why Elihu was not condemned along with Job's 3 friends and even Job himself. In Job 40 God asks: Shall the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him? He who rebukes God, let him answer it. V.8. Would you indeed annul My judgements? Would you condemn me that you may be justified? Wow! pretty heavy stuff! I have had Job's 3 friends and have been there with all of my self righteousness. I don't vindicate myself anymore but ask God to be my Vindicator. And I have seen my filthy, stinking self righteousness as abhorable in the eyes of both God and man. I felt so low I wanted to start my Christian life all over again. I used to beat myself up whenever I fell on my face and sinned. I expected myself to be better than that! God asked me if my judgements were higher than His. He had forgiven me when I first repented and had declaired me clean, so why did I continue to condemn myself as if He didn't have the authoritive final word? Did that ever shut me up! In 42:3 Job admits that he uttered that which he did not understand, things to wonderful for him, that he did not know. This tells me that even when we are going through severe hardship or pain and don't understand why we are suffering, we should always exhalt and vindicate God. And He doesn't need a reason for allowing it all. But we should never doubt His love for us. Even when He chastens us it is because He loves us and He corrects us to produce good fruit. His pruning is to remove the center of the tree, our self centered nature to allow His light to all branches; it produces larger fruit. He is a good, righteous and merciful God. He has promised to never leave us or forsake us, even though I may feel like He has. I can't trust my feelings; I can trust God's integrity and the promises in His Word. He can use all things for good--even if I never live to see it.

Several states have. Our last governor made it legal in Washington State by gubenatorial decree, much like our president did with his heathcare. Executives are not allowed to sign measures into law that are not passed by the house and senate, but they are doing it. The people in WA voted against same sex marriage several times. But this was ignored. The constitution is largely being ignored.

I think our parents give us our names, but God promises those who overcome a new name in Rev.2:17 He renamed a lot of people. Jacob was named Israel, Saul was named Paul, Simon was named Peter. I still like the name tigger. When our son was three we called him tigger because he would bouncy bouncy all around the house. It brings back fond memories. I like some old ladies names and unique names, which is why I chose Willamina, my grandma's name. I also like Viola. But some I don't like as well are Gertrude, Agnus and Madeline.

This is amazing! I read the scriptures as you do as plainly stated and without bent, but I agree completely with Stephen (enoob), who is speaking plainly and scripturally. But in many cases you seem to see more in scripture than is plainly stated. The only way in which Jesus is the 2nd Adam is in how Romans explains it in 5:12-21. Adam brought sin and death into the world through his trangression, but Jesus Christ brought the free gifts of righteousness and justification to mankind through His obedience to be crucified for the sins of mankind. His grace brings eternal life for all who trust in Him. Praise God for the gift of righteousness given to those who are in Christ. Great are our riches in Him. Roman 5:17, Ephesians 1 But it was God's eternal plan of redemption. He foresaw Adam's transgression and had the plan of Christ's redemption from before the beginning of time. It is not plan B but His original plan that Christ our Redeemer should die for the sins of mankind. There is nothing that God has not known or forseen or planned for from the beginning. Eph 1:4 states that we were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. All of Ephesians 1 speaks of God's plan of redemption. So Adam the man did not interrupt God's plan by his transgression. While it may not have been God's purpose for Adam to sin, He did forsee it. It was never God's eternal plan that Adam stay in the garden. Christ's redemption was His eternal plan so that God alone was glorified. Thank you Lord for the riches of Your grace which are so abundant for any who will receive, and who am I that You should enable me to reign in life through You? Blessed be Your Name! Amen

That would be conjecture. I deal with what is plainly stated in Scripture. Being as is not is. As one of us is used in comparison meaning like. Please stop redirecting with questions. I will ignore them.

This statement sounds vaguely mormon. Adam could never have become God. Only Father God by the Holy Spirit has ever procreated. Even if Adam had never sinned, he still would have been a man without sin. He never would have been God in human flesh, Emmanuel. Jesus was God in flesh from the time the Word did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped in Phil. 2. He humbled Himself to come in the form of a man. Jesus the I AM was not created but was in the beginning with God the Father and was God the Word. John 1. He participated in the creation of Adam and all things. Col. 1:16 Your theory here doesn't hold water..

Jesus learned? But was sent by the Father. Whom the Father revealed all things to as Lord? Heb. 5:7-9 Who in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who is able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His Godly fear, though He was a Son, He learned obedience (faith which obeys God's will) by the things that He suffered. And having been perfected (completed) He became the author of eternal salvation to those who obey Him,---NKJV + the complete Wordstudy Dictionary NT 1 Peter 1:6-9 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of you faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it be tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith---the salvation of your souls. There is no doubt that our faith is tested and tried. This is especially true of Jesus at the beginning of His ministry and at the end of it. And it is those whose faith endures to the end that shall be saved. Our faith is an ongrowing process from when we are first born again till our new bodies are given us. But from the time the Holy Spirit cries Daddy in our hearts we know that God has sealed us for eternity. This seems to be more experiential than doctrinal. It comes as we learn to walk in obedience to His Holy Spirit of love, and we learn to allow Christ in us to express His love and forgiveness. Now, I really didn't understand much of what Cross Reference was saying. But I did agree with most of what others said. I hope that Cross Reference is not fishing for specific answers and ATTEMPTING TO TEACHING IN THE STYLE OF SOCRATES. It is not allowed that people teach here, but rather we discuss and exchange ideas. Only Staff can teach. I have completely lost track of the question(s) and am totally confused. Endless questions that seem to take us nowhere is , well, tedious. Some of us don't have the patience for this sort of thing. Jesus did nothing and said nothing but what the Father gave for Him to do or say. He obeyed perfectly while in the flesh as perfect Man. At times He learned to obey at great cost, especially at the cross. He did not yield to the temptations of satan in the areas of the world, the flesh, and worshipping/obeying the devil. Jesus remained lowly and submissive to His Father to accomplish His will and purpose. Yes, He is our example in overcoming. But more than that, He did it perfectly because mankind is unable to do anything perfectly. Even with Christ in us and the Holy Spirit guiding us, we remain imperfect. And any imperfection is sin. The just shall live by their faith. Christ justified us at the Cross by our faith, and we continue to live the Christian life by that same jusifying faith, just as the old testament saints believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. Gen. 15:6, Romans 4, 16, 21-22, 5:9 We overcome by our faith in the character of our God of the Bible who stands behind His Word. We overcome by the Blood of the Cross and our testamonies.

I don't believe it would pass the desk of our liberal governor.