Willa

God also speaks to me that way. During the following week He often sends the same answer to me in other ways, perhaps even on Worthy, or through the Sunday sermon or through a chorus or hymn. I often get 2 or 3 confirmations that this was indeed God's voice, until I am better able to recognize it or whenever I am in doubt.. He is so patient and faithful to us. "Casting all your cares on Him for He cares for you." 1Peter 5:7 "Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I say rejoice! Let your gentlesness be known to all men. THE LORD IS AT HAND! Be anxious for nothing but but by prayer and supplication (begging) with THANKSGIVING, let your requests be known to God; and the peace of God which passes all understanding will keep your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. Finally brethern, Whatever things are true Whatever things are noble, Whatever things are just, Whatever things are pure, Whatever things are of good report, If there is any virtue and if there is anythìng praiseworty, Meditate on these things. Philippeans 4:4-8. This is the time to turn off the news and start listing all the prayers God has answered in the past and thank Him. List all the things God has done for you, including dying for your on the cross. God loves you just because He created you, not for anything you have accomplished. But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. 1 Peter 5:10 For in that it was an obligation for Him in all things to be made like His brethren, in order that He might become a compassionate and faithful Hight Priest in things pertaining to God, with a view to offering that sacrifice for the sins of the people that would perfectly meet the demands of God's justice. FOR IN THAT HE SUFFERED, HAVING HIMSELF BEEN TEMPTED AND PUT TO THE TEST, HE IS ABLE TO RUN TO THE CRY OF THOSE WHO ARE BEING TEMPTED AND PUT TO THE TEST, AND BRING THEM AID. Hebrews 2:17-18 ALT Romans 8:34-37 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died and furthermore also is risen. WHO ALSO MAKES INTERCESSION FOR US. Who shall seperate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation or distress, or persecution or famine, or nakedness or peril or sword? As it is written: For Your sake we are killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors THROUGH HIM WHO LOVED US. {However, I have to admit that while we are going through those trials we don't feel like conquerers. But we are if we simply survive them and perhaps you will receive the conquerer's crown in heaven.} Blessings, Willa I will continue to pray.

Romans 3:23-26 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Romans 3:28 therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. Romans 4:3 For what does the scriptures say? Abraham believed God and it was accounted for him as rightousness. Now to him that works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted to him as righteousness. 5:8-9 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us. Much more then, having been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Perhaps they would consider an nurse anesthetist. I would apply with that credential, since not so many nurses have it. A note, I have heard some native pastors complain that ships that come with medical aide make it more difficult for their work. The Christians of the mountains of Viet Nam and Cambodia are badly persecuted, and the converts come wanting the same services the ship had provided. The poor churches are unable to do that. They are supposed to work with the native churches but many there are reluctant to reveal their presence due to the persecution. There are other mission organizations that use medical services as a means to enter a country where Christians are otherwise not welcome. However, they probably are looking for a longer commitment.

The church is the bride of Christ, betrothed to her till He comes back for her and He takes her to His Fathers house where there are many mansions or dwellings for her. Eph. 5:25-28,32 The church is composed of all born again believers who have received Christ into their lives, confessing that Jesus is Lord, having believed in their hearts that He is risen from the dead. They have been sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption. Eph 4:30 2 Cor. 1:22 Rom.8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indead the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. The church is the body of Christ Eph 1:22b-23 --and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him Who fills all in all. --- but speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ--from whom the whole body joined and knit together by which every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Eph. 4:15-16 NKJV. So we belong to Christ and are a part of each other since Christ dwells in each of us.

Boash, you said it well. Pride keeps us from receiving God's grace and the free gift of faith. We are justified by faith. It is the sin of unbelief and the pride that hardened our hearts that keep us from salvation. My friend's dad died not believing in God. My friend was having difficulty with the claim of Jesus that no man can come to the Father but by Me, after that. She was buying into the All roads lead to heaven herecy. So she asked me why God didn't save her dad. I told her I didn't know. But it started me searching the Scriptures. I ended it with the verse: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." We are, after all, saved by grace through faith, --a gift from God. My friend's dad was a very kind man but also a very proud man. I loved him like a second dad because he was so much like my dad. But in the end my dad had humbled himself and received the Christ of the Bible. Her dad's parents had been Christians who gave their all to God. He resented that fact that they had supported their church and missions but failed to help him through school. So he was a self made man, proud of his achievement, who hated God because his parents put God first in their lives. The person who is proud will resist God's grace when it is offered him, and God will resist his pride. But God pours out His grace on the humble and poor in heart who are able to receive Him and His compassionate loving forgiveness; this forgiveness is provided in the new covenant, which was ratified by the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross.

I would agree with the above. I used to have a bumper sticker that read: THOSE WHO THINK THEY KNOW IT ALL UPSET THOSE OF US WHO DO!. lol It was a good reminder to myself. I like the p.s." About the time I get on my high horse, Jesus rides off on his donkey." as well. Is that on Fresno Joe's or Omegaman's. Can't remember. But I do need these occasionally when I start to lose my patience.

Matt. 11:25 I thank you, Father, that you have hidden these things from the wise and prudent, and revealed them to babes. Mark 4:11-12 And He said to them, To you has been given to know the mystery of the Kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables, so that Seeing they may not see and perceive, And hearing they may not hear and understand; Lest they should turn And their sins be forgiven them. So it seems that the only way to truly understand the parables is to repent, turn away from your sins and throw yourself on God's mercy, so that your sins might be forgiven. Then Jesus by His Spirit shall teach you all things in such a way that you can put them into practice. The parables are for the followers of Jesus and are hidden from those who have a hard, unrepentant heart. There judgement will be even greater if they do understand. We are held accountable to practice what we know and understand.

When a pastor prays for a sermon topic and the message when delivered is inspired and spoken effectively in the power of the Holy Spirit so as to change lives, it is likely a prophecy. Our pastor speaks about when he was saved, he had walked into a church for the first time and when the pastor preached he reavealed everything he (who is now our pastor) had done that week. The pastor who was preaching was unaware of all this but was simply inspired to preach a salvation message. Our pastor was saved that sunday. Prophecy is speaking the mind of God. It is for the upbuilding of the body of Christ.. Exortation so as to encourage the congregation or admonish them, and inspired teaching are also often delivered by the pastor in the power of the Holy Spirit.. Some churches allow others to exercise these gifts as well. Prophecy normally has little to do with the future. The elders who guide the church also may be chosen because they are gifted in wisdom. One time a woman went to the alter for prayer. As soon as another woman saw her there she had compassion on her and she instantly knew both what the woman was worried about (a word of knowledge), and she also received a word of wisdom as to what to do about the situation. She went to the alter and quietly delivered the message to the other woman. This is something she had never done before and to my knowlege has never done since. They were barely acquainted but it all proved to be true. The knowledge and wisdom are not learned. This is far different from fortune telling or going to someone who claims to have such a gift of prophecy to have them speak over you. I wonder if some of that stuff is of God. I don't know. When in need of wisdom we should ask God and receive the answer in what ever way God chooses to deliver it. Too often we ask people and get bad advice. These gifts are usually exercised in blind obedience, risking making a fool of one's self. You are better able to discern if the thing you witnessed was of God. If they have a history in the occult I would be more doubtful. If the message was given in compassion, deeply caring about the woman, it more likely was genuine. By their fruit you shall know them.

On chat I asked for prayer last year for Cassie, a highschool girl who fell 50 feet at church camp and broke her back. She started recovering by awaking from a coma and moving her hand, as I recall. She had no feeling for some time but eventually felt pain in her stomach. Slowly she has progressed till she now has feeling down to her knees and is able to move herself around. She still has pain in her stomach and still needs our prayer and support. But she and her familly have maintained faith in the goodness of God. Men from our church remodeled her house to update it an make it able to accomodate her wheelchair. She still needs a lot of physical therepy. But she has returned to highschool youth group. Her dad needs more work since he lost many of his clients due to being with her when she is being treated in a trauma center several hundered miles away. He is self employed. God is faithful. He doesn't prevent hard things but He does walk with them.

Zion, how we express God's love depends a lot on the spiritual gifts given us. How we interpret need is based on those gifts. I can pray for you from another continent and I can encourage you. I can amonish you or teach in some cases. But my husband cannot as easily use the gift of helps as he did yesterday after a neighbor's house had been broken into and robbed. He went over and helped him board up the broken window.. Now, the man is not a believer and had been pretty antagonistic toward hubby. In the past all overtures of friendship had been rebuffed.. But hubby stops and helps stranded motorists, and he reaches out to anyone in need with physical assistance. I am less likely to recognize physical needs. When I heard of a thousand people receiving Christ in India, I sent money for Bibles, the bread of life. I hear that in India people divide their bibles, memorize a portion, and then trade it for another portion they are so needed.. That is why we, the body of Christ, need each other to get the job done. Jesus would feed the 5000 as well as give them the bread of life. Now the problem is that is am an inconsistant human. While I may reach out in compassion and obey God one day, the next day I may be caught up in the troubles of life and not be sensitive to God's nudging. So I fall on my face and ignore it. Still, my giftedness is well suited for long distance. How can I love you from here? We will be judged by our words. We can sense the fruit of the Spirit in them, too. And it is God's love and fruit that ultimately binds our hearts. I hope my words convey God's grace and I ask you all to forgive me and forbear me when they don't. Sometimes we fail to recongnise the need and pain in another's angry or accusing words and we become defensive or respond in anger. But as a family, we should be able to love each other anyway, even when we are not so lovable. It is when we endure and resolve problems that the strength of that love grows deeper. We learn to trust each other and appreciate each other in spite of differences.. It is not as easy to love unbelievers who respond with hate. But when we remember that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us, and remember that but for the grace of God there go I, we are able to better see their need and respond to them as God does. Each one of us is precious in His sight, especially damaged goods.

EZ 1:26-28 And above the firmament over their heads, in appearance like a sapphire stone; on the likeness of the throne was a likeness of an appearance of a man high above it. Also, from the appearance of His waist and upward I saw as it were the appearance of amber with the appearance of fire all around and within it; and from the appearance of his waist and downward I saw, as it were, the appearancee of fire with brightness all around. Like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearanc of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord.

The Expanded Translation translates verse 6 this way: and WHO DID NOT AFTER WEIGHING THE FACTS, CONSIDER IT A TREASURE TO BE CLUTCHED AND RETAINED AT ALL HAZARDS, THIS BEING ON AN EQUALITY WITH DIETY, BUT HIMSELF HE EMPTIED, Himself he made void, having taken the outward expression of a bondslave, which expression comes from and is truly representative of His nature (as diety), entering into a new state of existance, that of mankind. And being found in outward guise as man, he stooped very low, having become obedient to (God the Father) to the extent of death, even as such a death as that on the cross. I like this because it clearly says that the Word completely thought it through and did not hang onto His equality with the Father but gave up His form and position to become a bondslave to the Father. A bondslave is a freed person who chooses to become a slave out of love for the master and devotion to him.. Jesus chose to become a man and to serve the Father, even obeying Him to the point of death on the cross. He demonstrated ultimate faith and love of the Father as an example to us (v5 let this same mind be in you). He demonstrated His obedience. "Not my will but thine be done". He being fully human did not want to suffer and die on a cross. He pleaded to the point that His blood pressure caused His cappillaries to burst and to sweat blood. But He obeyed His Father and went to the cross because He so loved and trusted His Father. Jesus obeyed Him perfectly and we are told that He learned obedience by the things He suffered. He learned the full cost of perfect obedience. Thank You, Jesus, for fulfilling the requirements of the law on our behalf through Your perfect obedience. Amen.

God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. I am not sure that we will be able to see Him; such pure light must be blinding and while we will have spiritual perception, I don't know if we will see the way that we do with mortal eyes. We are told also that no man can see God and live. In our resurrected bodies it still sounds like our Father will be pretty overwhelming. Rev.1:13-17 discribes Jesus. Ezekiel 1:26-28 might be Jesus or might be the Father. It doesn't really say. And the Cherubs in Ezekiel 1: 4-25 and 10:7-22 aren't the cute little Roman babies with wings that we see painted by the masters. They are wings, eyes and wheels and they had 4 faces of which only one was like a man. They are more like a dragon fly than a winged baby. It would be fun to try to paint one of those and replace the cuties Raphael painted. No wonder people were afraid and fainted. Most of the lesser angels are discribed as men, and not effeminate men like the winged ladies we see at Christmas. They are warriors and messengers sent to serve us. So much of what we imagine is worthless folk lore. The Bible is much more excitiing.

Matthew 3:13-17 Then Jesus came up from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptised by him. And John tried to prevent Him, saying, I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me? But Jesus answered and said to him, Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he allowed Him. When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "this is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Jesus also said that if we confess Him before men, He would confess us before His Father in heaven. So baptism also declares to all that we have repented of our sinfulness and desire to follow Christ and identify with Him. When we identify with Christ we also identify with His Church, all people in whom He resides. Jesus did it as an example for us to follow, and He instructed the Apostles to baptise their disciples. (Only Paul rarely baptised.) No it is not necessary. I know a woman who had a colostomy bag and was afraid of it coming open in a pool. But she was dying and desperately wanted to be baptised. The pastors explained that it was not necessary. But she insisted so they touched her with water ,as some churches do, and repeated the words that they were baptising her in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The thief on the cross was not baptised either but went to Paradise with Jesus. But those of us who are not hindered from doing so should be baptised. It represents the death of the old sinful self and arising from the water a new person in Christ. This is a great blessing to most people.

Where did Christ go? He went to the synagog. He cleansed it of the crooked moneychangers. He spoke to the self righteous pharasees more than the unbelieving liberal sadusees. He reasoned with the pharasees and tried to show them how imperfect their righteousness is and how needful they are. He also went to the poor and diseased, some of which weren't allowed in a church. So I would imagine that he would go to the soup kitchens and missions. He would visit the hospitals and their chapels. Since he came not for the righteous but for sinners, He would not necessarily go where He is welcome. He would be found in the chapels in prisons and walk the corridors ministering to the inmates. Yes, He already goes where His Spirit is now found, and worships with those in whom He lives. But I can't help but think that He would go where He is most needed, to the millions that starve without food and without spiritual food, to the orphans on the streets and to the wretched orphanages around the world. Jesus did not spend as much time in the synagog as He did going out to make Himself accessable to all people, tax collectors and sinners..And He spent the most time with the apostles--the future pastors. So I think He would spend time in Bible schools, teaching the Word of God more correctly.

I used to be in the habit of beating myself up whenever I fell on my face. I had to do that for at least a week before I could forgive myself. After all, I had higher standards than that and I had let myself down to have sunk so low. Then one day God called me on it. He said "Who do you think you are that you consider your judgements higher than Mine? I forgave you when you asked it of Me, and have remembered your sin no more. I promised to cleanse you. You are calling yourself unclean after I have made you clean!" That really closed my mouth. He also pointed out that while I was continuing to accuse myself, I was grieving the Holy Spirit and unable to give my family the love they needed. I was angry with myself and was depressed and in a terrible mood, which made me unfit for God's use. God taught me that I needed to confess my sin, turn away from it trusting Jesus that I had been cleansed, ask God to again fill me with His Spirit, and move on. Oh, yes, sometimes I thought I knew better than God in other matters. I questioned Him sometimes why He would give us a president that seems to hate His people, both Christians and Jews. Then I remember that prophecy has to be fullfilled. God does take me out to the toolshed for a whipping when my head gets too big. But He tries to reason with me first. Then He allows me to be humiliated if I still don't see myself from His perspective. Finally is that scourging that REALLY HURTS. A broken and contrite heart He will not dispise. "Be clothed with humility, for God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. Therefore humble yourselves under the might hand of God that He man exalt you in due time, casting all your care upon Him for He cares for you." 1Peter 5:5b-6 NKJV

The fish, the ichthys, was the first symbol for Christians that was found in the catecombs. No one worshiped it. It is more a form of cryptic communication such as hieroglyphics. Some people prefer to wear it now days because they always portray the mafia wearing crosses. But it is Christ's suffering and death on the cross that the cross brings to my mind. It represents His love for me to have born my sins, and the New Covenant that He ratified with His blood. "So I'll cling to the old rugged cross". I am sorry that many of you were forced to bow to it. In the end every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Not everyone will want to do that, either. It is far better to do so in love and gratitude.

I do agree that lyrics with music can bypass our intellectual filters and can be absorbed emotionaly. It is said that Hitlers used his marches to sway the public toward his nationalistic propaganda. Fortunately, I didn't understand most of the Beatles drug undertones etc because I wan't into that scene and didn't know the jargon. The same can be said of satanic stuff. However, I was also raised in a liberal church that had about 450 in attendance when I was a kid and now is down to 20 elderly ladies. Part of the problem with many of these churches is that many have no study groups for people over confirmation age. Some have no high school or college age and young adult classes. These ages are extremely social and desire to meet other people of the same age group who share their values. When this is lacking they will try other churches. Eventually they may resort to bars and social networking. However, a church is much more than a social club. It is also the body of Christ. Secondly, these churches for the most part have forsaken the Bible as the standard of practice, stopped teaching it and stopped adhereing to the orthodox fundamentals of faith. That is why I left the church I had been raised in. It taught nothing and had even taken every mention of the Trinity out of the hymnal. Fortunately I found a church that still adhered to conservative fundamentals. But when a church disintigrates into a money hungry country club, there is no food to feed the soul. There is nothing to guide us in life or help us resolve the hard questions. In most cases you can see that the Holy Spirit has no power there because He is so grieved by it all. Now our college culture is so brain washed to be "broad minded, inclusive and socially correct" that many seek churches that also represent these perverted ideals. No longer are they teaching to hate the sin but love the sinner. It is all I'm OK, you're OK. Some maintain social decorum, as at the royal wedding but abandon godliness. Others abandon social decorum as well. Social more' can go if we maintain godliness and orthodox beliefs. For instance, My mother in law considered me a loose woman because I telephoned my husband while we were engaged! Her ideas of right and wrong were not based on scripture. She was a good Episcopalian but she did not own a Bible. A Methodist lady who claimed to be a Christian told us her mother had died. We asked her if she had been saved. She replied "we'll see if the good outweighs the bad". It is tragic when churches do not teach the way of salvation clearly. It is even more tragic when they no longer require a person to repent and receive Christ as Savior and Lord, crucified and risen from the dead, to become a member.

Thomas, I deeply apologize if anything I said insulted you. I was replying to post #6 and had neither read the prior thread you refer to nor the rest of the posts on this thread. I was questioning you because I was confused by your logic. I believe that there is one God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Who together created the heavens, the earth and everything there in. If God did not create satan, the only logical way he could have come into being is that he also is a god from the beginning. I cannot believe such a thing, but only asked if that what you believe. I did not intend to insult you in any way but only sought to understand you. I have never called you a name or tried to diminish you in any way. Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding and my inability to grasp what you are saying.

No other being is mentioned as having been in Eden. A cherubim was a very high ranking angel that would be capable of pulling off a rebellion of 1/3 of God's angels. Note that God created him to be good and perfect in the beginning. He became proud and rebellious on his own. Since God created everything, even principalities and powers in heavenly places, do you then believe that satan was not created but was a god? Col. 1:15-17. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. (Speaking of Jesus).

The early church consisted mostly of home churches when they were under persecution. 3000 were converted at Pentecost but they had gathered from all over the Mediterranean areas at Jeruselem for the feasts. No doubt not all stayed there with the apostles. A church was also mentioned at Antioch before Peter and Paul took the Gospel to the gentiles. I am a great believer in home churches or home Bible studies. To me there should be several families involved. Those that are based on a book for study, such as a Navagator bible study, are more successful. Otherwise, meeting together in a larger body assures more orthodox teaching. I have seen more weird stuff pop up in other home studies. One little guy who was always quiet in church stood up in a home meeting and proclaimed that we are going to hell if we don't believe his teaching. This was reported to the pastor who took care of it. In another church that boke into home studies, the leaders started having envy of other growing groups and party spirit arose. In one they were convinced that my hubby was not a Christian. While he had not become a member of that church, he had been a Christian for 13 years and had led other members of that church to the Lord. It had to do with the spiritual maturity of the leaders. In another a leader said that the blood of Jesus only covers our sins and we are not justified by faith. So I really prefer teaching to be from the pastoral staff of a larger church if a study series is not used. We lay people can come up with some not so bibical notions. Small groups are better suited for prayer and praise, and for perhaps discussing the pastor's sermon. Our wednesday night and sunday night services serve that purpose, allowing for questions, discussion and indivdual prayer. They have between 50 and 200 in attendance.

Psuche is spelled psych in English, which is the root of psychology. In Greek it denotes breath or life, a living person, as well as soul. Soul is related to emotions, desires, appetities, courage, instincts, affections and mind. But dianoia refers to understanding and intellect. 4151 pneuma is to breathe, a blast, wind, breath of (spiritual) life, spirit and mind, seat of godly attributes such as humility and fruit of the Spirit. The spiritual part of man that can live independantly of the body. Mat. 27:50 He gave up His spirit.. Acts 7:59 Her spirit came again and she arose. John 6:63, the spirit in a man gives life to the body, so my words are spirit and life to the soul; The rational spirit, mind, element of life. The spirit can communicate with God's Spirit. In 1 Cor 2:14 speaking of the the natural man is refering the soul of a man (psuchikos) that cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God because they are spiritually (pneuma) discerned. The soul is the natural life that makes us a seperate individual. The spirit is the new man, born again of God. ref. Complete Word Study Dictionary by Zodhiates

True, Mat. 24:7 talks about the beginning of sorrows that will occur before the great trib--wars, rumors of wars, famines pestilence and earthquakes don't sound very reassuring, especially since the west coast of the USA and South America is one big earthquake zone. But why should we be exempt from suffering? Worry doesn't help any. We can ask for the strength and faith to bring Him glory both now and in the years to come. And we are to keep our eye on the prize--to see Jesus and to be like Him--and to finish the race. I look at it all this way. Stuff will happen. It is better to go through with Jesus than without Him. But I do have grandkids that are not saved and my concern is for them.

AMEN

I agree that we should not tempt God by purposefully handling deadly snakes or drinking poison. But there is the promise that should these things inadvertently happen, especially while in God's service, that God will heal them. And while walking in obedience to God should we be led to lay hands on the sick, He does say they will recover. The Alexandrian text, while the latest discovery of a complete manuscript and oldest to date, is like discovering the Jehovah's Wittness' version of the Bible, the New World Translation. The Gnostics not only wrote false gospels, they changed the Holy Bible to fit their cult's beliefs. The Alexandrian/Gnostic manuscripts are the least reliable for that reason. Since the letters of the church fathers quoted these verses and by far predated the Alexandrian texts, there is still plenty of reason to leave the verses in. Even the Majority text uses the longer ending of Mark, and that was the text that was most copied and relied on by the Greek speaking church. But since believers usually copied onto parchment, fewer survived and since they were often copied by laymen for their own used, many errors were made. Still, Vss 16-20 are included in the Tyndale's translation of the Majority text as well as Young's Litteral Translation of Textus Receptus, the Peshitta, the Vulgate and all early translations that I am aware of that predated the discovery of the Gnostic Alexandrian version.